Some interesting snippets:
"I think it's every girl's history where the most unattractive, tall skinny girls in high school [are] picked on, and then suddenly, [she] turns into the opposite. It's kind of hard to believe." – Elise Crombez
"At school I got harassed so badly for being too tall, too thin, too pale - too everything that has gotten me where I am now, which is quite ironic." – Karen Elson
About Giselle Bundchen: While in school, Bündchen was so thin that her friends used to call her "Olívia Palito" (Portuguese for Olive Oyl, Popeye's skinny friend), and Saracura (a kind of long-legged bird).
Comment: The comment by Elise Crombez sums it up for many high-fashion models. Most young individuals find them to be unattractive, and often to such an extent that they pick on these future models. So what happens to turn these girls from unattractive to attractive all of a sudden? These models do not suddenly become attractive from the perspective of the general population; they just run into luck, namely a model scout seeking girls with just the right look to please gay fashion designers, i.e., an adolescent-boy look. It also appears that some high-fashion models have not figured out what made them “attractive” all of a sudden.
The comment by Karen Elson is of some interest. She is English and was picked on for being too pale in England! This goes on to show, once again, that children are stricter than adults when it comes to the range of looks they find socially acceptable with respect to many aspects of physical appearance (see previous discussion regarding body fat), and children are obviously not learning to appreciate a narrow range of looks from adults because the adults are more relaxed about their preferences.
Comments
Cameron Diaz has stated in interviews that in high school, she was taunted with the nickname "Skeletor!"
As for Elson being picked on for her paleness, having a mutation for rare coloring will generally make those kids the target of insulting comments (in this regard, children aren't too different from chickens that will peck to death a differently colored bird). However, I don't think this phenomenon effectively supports your reasoning that whatever kids find attractive is thus more reliable, therefore justifying our mutual disdain for virilized women. A lot of what they find acceptable has to do with their limited contact with certain races. I'm willing to bet that as a child Angelina Jolie would have been dubbed "Fish Lips" had she gone to my elementary school, but not in a more racially mixed primary school.
Even though Elson's coloring is more common in the UK, it actually carries much worse social implications than in the US. Being red-headed is seen very negatively there. So even very young children are susceptible to socialized beliefs about racial/phenotypic traits; their reactions aren't necessarily "pure," as you seem to be implying.
Remember, people with blue eyes were once denigrated for being the exception, too. Blue eyes and Nordic coloring were seen as a marker for stupidity.
All that said, the manly-woman preference is absolutely socialized. The ideal of virilized women who look like prepubescent girls in an awkward, unevenly executed growth spurt or gangly teenage boys is disturbing and misogynistic.
Kimberly: I surely haven’t reasoned that “whatever kids find attractive is thus more reliable, therefore justifying our mutual disdain for virilized women.” The point is to show how the typical high-fashion model quickly goes from unattractive to “attractive.” A side point is that on several counts children harbor a narrower range of aesthetic preferences than adults, which cannot be attributed to adults.
Your examples focus on pigmentation, whereas the quotes are mostly talking about body shape and size, i.e., multiple features and how they come together. If Karen Elson was a feminine and attractive girl, she would either not have been picked on for her pigmentation or teased very little. I know that even the Irish and Scottish are not exactly gung-ho about red hair, but Elson’s quote doesn’t mention red hair. Additionally, ethnicity is not a factor since these women have been picked on by their co-ethnics.
When and where were blue eyes and Nordic coloring seen as markers of stupidity? Also, if by Nordic coloring you mean skin color, most Nordics have normal skin and only a minority have pale English skin.
You should not see the use of high-fashion models that look like prepubescent girls or adolescent boys as a form of misogyny. The gay fashion designers responsible are simply selecting models based on their aesthetic preferences.
It is misogynistic because so many people other than gay men have embraced it. I can't watch TV without products and services that promise to get rid of my hips being thrown in my face. Even men who claim to like "feminine" women pick and choose which aspects are sufficiently feminine and reject other markers for sexual dimorphism. They are socialized just as the rest are, no matter how delusionally free of it they believe they are. Anyway, people have embraced this increasingly tubular body shape, whether we agree with it or not.
Oh, so Nordic skin is now "normal" skin? I mean the light-skinned people who are blue-eyed and naturally blonde into adulthood, and pale in that pinkish sort of way. They are equally pale as UK folks, if not more so. These so-called Aryans were, yes, perceived as stupid when Indian people and/or other Middle Easterners first encountered them. Ironically/sadly, the caste system seems to have changed its priorities...
Why are you shocked at the prospect that Caucasian features weren't uniformly considered the ideal throughout history? Supremacist ideology isn't inherently skewed in favor of whites. But now we're going way off-topic.
Kimberly: The ubiquity of masculinized female models is not indicative of many people having endorsed them, but of the gay domination of the fashion business. I have had to repeatedly point to you that controlled laboratory studies show that most people harbor a preference for above average femininity in women, i.e., people’s preferences, properly evaluated, haven’t been affected. Your socialization idea is a myth. Given the dearth of feminine beauty in the limelight and posing tricks, implants and airbrushing among models, many heterosexual men will fail to notice the extent of masculinization among fashion models.
Nordic skin is typically normal for a white person, which is how you should have understood it, and normal means pale by default and capable of tanning up to light brown. I have never heard of Northern Europeans regarded as stupid by Indians and Middle Eastern people when they first encountered them. Please cite some references.
Well, Erik, just because you've never heard of Indians and/or Middle Easterns talk negatively about Northern Euporeans, doesn't mean it hasn't happen. No group of people is safe from being stereotyped or mocked, including Northern Europeans. It'd be very hard to cite something like this. I know in the United States, there is a running joke that white women with blonde hair are considered ditzy/stupid. Of course, not all of them are stupid.
Being pale is not the norm.
Back to the topic, Tyra Banks was teased by her peers when she was younger. Alek Wek was and still is getting flack from the public about her appearance.
d: In my reply to Kim, I specifically said that I have never heard of Indians/Middle Easterners talk of Northern Europeans as stupid. I know that many among them have some negative views of Northern Europeans.
I've had a German tutor tell me that 'blue-eyed' is a German expression indicating that someone is naive or a little dumb. The blond ditz is a common stereotype in the West (for both genders). Since blue eyes and blond hair tend to go together, perhaps this has something to do with these features being associated with youth, immaturity, etc.?
There is also the likelihood that those who encountered northern Europeans for the first time associated their inability to communicate and/or ignorance of local custom (that may have seemed universal) with their coloring.
one man's meat is another's poison.
When i was in my east-asian home country, i was blasted for being tall, thin, dark (olive skin) & having high cheek bones. Now that im in a western country, people sometimes stop me on the streets because they think im a model (which im not). Even some of those local asians here covet for my looks.
As a woman, i feel great :) whenever people appreciate my beauty, be it the homosexual-dominated fashion industry or the heterosexual males. and i think that applies to many women.
cheers
Kim said: "These so-called Aryans were, yes, perceived as stupid when Indian people and/or other Middle Easterners first encountered them. Ironically/sadly, the caste system seems to have changed its priorities. . ."
"Ironically/sadly?" Now, I sincerely doubt that Indian people and Middle Easterners thought of Whites as "stupid." Not for long, anyway. For one, by "Indians," you must mean the "gypsies" (for gypsies are of the same racial/ethnic stock as Indians) who crept into Europe and live like animals to this day, unable to lift themselves up in society - don't give me the old "oppression" line as an explanation for their poverty and criminality, since Jews were also "oppressed" but they did just fine. I sincerely doubt these gypsies think of Whites as stupid. . . or perhaps they actually do, since the Whites WERE stupid not to kick the gypsies out of Europe at the very beginning and instead tolerate them to this day. The Middle Easterns initially MAY have thought of Europeans as stupid, but they soon would have had to change their minds, seeing as said Europeans chased them out of Europe repeatedly. Of course you could always post links to resources which prove me wrong . . .
In any case, I would like to direct attention to this statement of yours: "Ironically/sadly, the caste system seems to have changed its priorities." Oooh, look at that anti-white bias! What's really ironic is that you most likely are a self-hating, "anti-racist," "unprejudiced" White person who gets a kick out of denigrating her own race, anxiously seeking an approving nod from non-whites. If you really were an anti-racist, you'd have merely used the word "ironically," and not "sadly," for using "sadly" implies that you are sad that Whites are now on top, that you are sad that Whites are no longer being oppressed and taken as slaves by Middle Easterns. Yes, guess where the English word for "slave" originated -- Slav. The Slavs in particular were heavily enslaved by Middle Easterns during the Middle Ages, but no one hears of this or demands reparations from the Arabs. Instead, anti-white, traitorous politicians opened up the flood gates to allow said Arabs to flood Europe and oppress its peoples once again with demands for Shariah law, terrorism, and other such nasty things.
You can read more about White slavery here:
http://www.originaldissent.com/forums/showthread.php?8335-The-massive-slave-trade-of-Eastern-Slavs-and-Africans-compared
Anyone who's sick and tired of anti-white bigotry, please join me at www.Stormfront.org and www.Amren.com. Together, we can start making a difference.