More interesting comments by male hetro readers on previous article:
BenInTheWoods
13 October 2009 10:32AM
straight men don't like girls that look like 12 year old boys ....
I'll take a fit healthy type over a skinny heroin mangled body any day. Is there any other choice??? Lagerfeld and his ilk are so far up their own arses that the real world must seem a very long way off
Stealthbong
13 October 2009 5:36AM
If Karl Lagerfeld were a real person - and not made of plastic, and he lived in the real world - not one where people live on fags and prozac and are past it by 25, he would know very well that people do NOT (least of all, men) prefer to look at skinny, junked-up waifs, to looking at someone who looks normal and won't break in half if you hug her.
What a wanker that man is.
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5ynic
13 October 2009 10:40AM
The guy's an idiot.
Personally, I'm attracted to skinny women more than rounder women.
However, my idea of a skinny woman is a good few sizes up from some of the martian freaks paraded on the catwalk. To pretend his industry is the follower rather than the leader in this bizarre distortion of body-image is puerile fantasy.
Let him say what he likes, but let us move away from giving these fools the oxygen of publicity. I fervently hope that in another generation the world of these fashionistas will sem as quaint and irrelevant to mainstream society as the foxhunting crowd does now.
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mikozero
13 October 2009 11:16AM
i've spent 38 years on this earth.
i've spent my entire life enjoying 'the banter' of large groups of men (6 brothers, school, collage, the navy, and then working on civil engineering and electrical engineering projects)
i have never heard a man express 'an interest' (if you know what i mean) in a fashion model.
ever.
in fact the one phase that pops into my head (in relation to the subject) goes along the lines of "who the hell wants to end up with a girl like that ? sleeping next to skinny girls is like sharing a bed with a bag of spanners"
so apparently not only are they not actually attractive they are crap for snuggling as well :P
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Akit
13 October 2009 1:15PM
yeah and i like to see poeple that look 'alive' at least, not like 'walking corpse features' Kaka Lagerfield. The man is a fool
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chunkylimey
13 October 2009 1:33PM
I think the rule should be that if you want to design clothes for a gender you have to be attracted to that gender.
Of course this means suddenly all Fashion designers would be bisexual for business reasons but the test would be that you have to french kiss your models before each show.
Then the business tension would be between what people feel comfortable wearing and what the designer wants them to look like. A much more Darwinian approach to fashion ;)
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shoothelip
13 October 2009 4:40PM
there's an argument that goes along the lines of the modern fashion model being something closer to the pubescent male that gay designers like Lagerfeld desire, henceforth skinny in. Round buxom women out. oh I don't care...I know that I wasn't so erly answering this article but could I please have lots of credits.
And from a hetro woman:
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anna1000
13 October 2009 10:53PM
A doctor told me that men like curves on women because it shows they're producing oestrogen. Maybe Karl doesn't really find women attractive? Most men I know say that sleeping with a skinny woman is like being with a boy. I think designers just aren't that clever and can't make their clothes look good on anything but a straight up and down coathanger.
resurrected.
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pretzelberg
14 October 2009 12:10AM
anna1000
Maybe Karl doesn't really find women attractive?
Wow. You may be onto something there ...
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sarahgee76
14 October 2009 10:19AM
This from the man that has chosen a 5"2 size 12 chav as the face of Chanel?
If that isnt round I dont know what is!
How can anyone take his opinion seriously? What hypocrisy!
We all know that the fashion industry is headed by gay men of course we dont see real women on the catwalk.
And a final copy& paste from the article of a young hetro man posing the VERY question you answered in your site!! Here is his comment:
Benito36
12 October 2009 8:37PM
This may be terribly innapropriate, and perhaps more an indication of my ignorance of the fashion world, but could it be that gay, male fashion designers are creating super-thin women's clothes within a subconscious attempt at making women look like young men?
(The only difference is he thinks the attempt is subconcious):
Maybe some ppl are actually waking up and smelling the coffee huh):? Anyway food for thought so hope you find the articles I posted interesting and helpful.
Here is a really insightful one I found, an article about Karl Lagerfield being a jerk and bitchy because a famous German magazine decided that they are going to STOP using stick thin models for their mag and start using HEALTHY NORMAL SLIM WOMEN AS OPPOSED TO SICKLY THIN BOYISH WOMEN!!
Apparantly the magazine is sick of having to airbrush the models afterwards to make them look less EMACIATED , and so Karl got angry saying that only fat ppl or 'mummies' as he called them would want to see anyone who isn't skinny! Yeah right!):, promoting anger from the general public, and here some comments from hetro men who commented below the article talking about how hetro men want natural women with curves and NOT skinny women who look like boys!!
Here are some I copied and pasted for the site Eric
Surely it's not beyond the wit of so-called top designers to design clothes for women, and not stick-insects. It's not only 'fat mummies' who object to zero sized models, as a straight male I like women who look like women, and not small boys"
'Still, what should we expect from a man who designed T-shirts that read "For Skinny People"?'
I'm guessing they don't go up to XXL, do they?
Really surprising thing about Herr Lagerfeld is the white hair - I really thought it would be brown, considering where his head must be most of the time.
"Flat chested size zero models most closely resemble young boys...
...there really is nothing more to add.
It's quite simple. Yes, this is fuelled by misogyny but it's also clearly motivated by sheer laziness. It is far simpler to design something for a human clothes hanger than it is to spend the effort necessary to design something for a woman who, God forbid, has some womanly curves. The 'ideal' woman used to be 36-24-36 or an hourglass not an ironing board. What is so scary about curves? (Good question huh):
And I like women who look like women, not boys (or underage girls for that matter) – otherwise I might as well be 100% straight in my æsthetic tastes.
While I don't claim to speak for every heterosexual in the Galaxy, I personally think breasts and an arse exponentially more attractive than angular shoulders and protruding collar bones.
I think it would be a very good thing to change the word "model" from meaning an ideal of beauty to meaning a rather freakish looking person, also I am sick to death of the word "curvacious" sort of meaning fat, no, curves are the natural shape of a woman and are to do with their skeletons, not anything to do with fat at all, the ultimate compliment on a woman's body I can think of is to say it's curvacious, which means it visibly shows all of the wonderful natural shape that has made woman the figure and muse for so much art over the millenia, let's not let a half dead German robot try and change our minds about that, or anything else for that matter.
Here's the article, check it out as I find the comments left by ppl support what you say in your site.
But as you always say and you are right sadly they just discuss the problem of being too sickly skinny and never discuss the reason why! Wonder why huh?):
to Mary your question is foolish and show you didn't understand the purpose of the site; it's not critique a 13 yr old's looks; its explaining why the fashion industry would even WANT her boyish unattractive type of look to begin with because while she is NOT ugly she is definitely NOT feminine and NOT very attractive; that might not be PC but it's true. Wake up and smell the coffee!!
To Maria: Good for you, you are one of the few ppl who actually GET THE POINT of this site, I am a straight woman and totally AGREE with what you say.
To those who like to criticize the site wITHOUT first understanding what it's about:
Women or men who keep criticizing the site and author either don't get the point of the site (which is about providing a feminine alternative in the fashion industry for women for their benefit and that of hetro men, rather than sickly thin models who ARE masculine and look like teen boys to please the asthetic look most gay designers prefer and end up dying) So most ppl who oppose the site either totally MISunderstand the idea of the site and think it's meant to tell women what beauty is and how to look which it's not- it's talking about what's suitable for fashion models in the industry and what's appealing to the genral public OR it's ppl wanting to be PC and 'cool' by defending the gay community - when the irony this site is NOT about attacking gays; it only talks about the negative impact of gays being the ONLY ones to dominate the fashion industry which is TRUE even if it's not 'PC" and let's fact it: It is unhealthy AND abnormal 1st for women: as some models have literally died after eating disorders for being too thin to please some nutty gay designer's dream as to what looks good on a woman i.e. being sickly scary thin and dying as opposed to being normal healthy thin, and creates eating disorders for women who ARE NOT models but feel pressured by the media to be stick thin to please this dumb 'ideal' the media and industry put forth because they don't know any better!
Great post Maria, totally agree with you! And good luck Eric, great, and realistic site backed up by research even if it offends ppl who are too much into PC and don't have the brains to realize something can be true even if it's not politically correct. Or is criticized by some women who think they have to be a certain ideal or men thinking they have to defend the ideal of what they want!
Wake up ppl it's not about that! Get a grip!
It's about the fasion industry being dominated by gay designers who asthetically prefer a boyish dying skinny unhealthy look that has pushed many models literally to death! Eric is doing women a favour with this website, and while many of us may not agree that all the women he finds attractive are so to everyone he never said they had to be! It's just that most of them ARE more feminine than the average fashion model - like it or not! And that IS the point!
At least the notion of feminine beauty promoted on THIS SITE is FAR more HEALTHY REALISTIC AND ATTAINABLE TO MANY that the skinny thin literally dying mannish model look!
Finally no one's saying that because the fashion models are masculine it makes them ugly, Eric never said that. However in their profession it makes sense that their is a more FEMININE alternative availabe for men and women from the general public who favour that, having that alternative would also REDUCE DANGEROUS EATING DISORDERS IN WOMEN IN GENERAL AND MODELS IN PARTICULAR!
NOTHING IS PERFECT BUT THIS SITE IS DOING US A BETTER FAVOUR THAN SOME UNREALISTIC NUTTY NOTION OF WHAT GAY DESIGNERS FIND ATTRACTIVE WHICH - SURPRISE!- MOST PPL MEN AND WOMEN ACTUALLY DO NOT FIND ATTRACTIVE!
The fact that many of us DID think many models attractive just goes to show how much airbrushing on a model can make her look more attractive and deceiving to the eye! Hell I used to think Cindy Crawford was reasonably attractive but when I saw her pics here she looks like a man! There is NO way Eric can get her to look like that to prove a point; on a bad day a bad photo will make her look LESS ATTRACTIVE SURE BUT NOT LESS FEMININE!
So if you're only reason for coming here is to fight with the author or try to feel more attractive and defend yr looks or yr here to be PC and take offense at anything you don't like this site isn't for you, the site is only for ppl interested in beauty, fashion, femininity from a scientific viewpoint even if it's not PC - AND actually have a valid counterargument to counter the author's argument with IF they disagree- rather than childish character attacks, which luckily Eric has NOT stooped to in response.
It's an interesting site and his theory on WHY the fashion industry is SO SCREWED UP is fascinating; take off your "PC blinders" and "need to validate my looks feeling" and you might actually LEARN something new!
And rememeber that if the site was talking about STRAIGHT designers - yes there are some like Eli Saab and Ralph Lauren to name a few- trying to push their asthetic ideal on women and THEIR VIEWS, most ppl would understand that it's not acceptable. But because the site discusses that its GAY DESIGNERS committing this offense some ppl not all automatically put on their "PC blinders" and feel the need to be "cool" and automatically assume the argment is just an attack on gay ppl which it's NOT- and then end up being argumentative and bashing the author WITHOUT EVEN really understanding what the site is about in the first place!
It's fine that some things make some ppl uncomfortable as they're not PC- but that's NOT science - and this site is ABOUT SCIENTIC RESEARCH and NOT about what's PC or not; it's refreshing for the open minded as we've all been brainwashed by the media to having to be PC about everything and about having to agree with what the media or industry says it's beautiful when it DAMN WELL ISN'T
Good luck Eric and admire you for putting up with crap from some ppl, GREAT post Maria, agree with everything you said - and with the arguments of the site.
You should put Anne Hathaway in yr attractive women's section, Eric, as she is attractive and feminine to many and healthy slim, and funnily enough her movie "The Devil Wears Prada" exempliefies nearly everything you say about this nutty fashion industry and their motives for hiring too skinny models, it was a hilarious movie if you saw it.
Ok i am back after a few days of looking and reading some more.LOL I am just so confused about this jawline and ckeekbone thing.I am trying to find out if my cheeckbones and jawline are just as robust as Brigitte Bardots or if they are still in the feminine range.Sometimes i think i look a lot like her and then somehow i dont.If i have to i think i may send you some pics of myself but would rather not right now.Sometimes her jaw looks like mine like in this pic http://fyiitsagirlthing.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/tumblr_ldvpwjyea51qcw7bso1_500.jpg But then her jaw looks more square and sharp like in this pic http://cdn3.iofferphoto.com/img/item/157/045/786/2oOm.jpg.Then i see other women with my jaw that you post like Monica from FTV girls and Minka Dumont Kelly just to name a few.So if you could please help me with all i sure would be happy.
To Tom you are right he has interesting info to provide backed by science and what he's doing is admirable. He's also NOT trying to insult these women- but he has to make the point that many of them are masculine more than feminine to prove the whole of the site about feminity being important in women's looks for most of the hetro population which is true and just the way it is- regardless of whether it's PC or not, that's just biology.
He also stated that calling them masculine does NOT mean they're ugly nor is it an insult. Granted no women likes to be called masculine but he has to point out certain facts that correspond to science. And he has backed up his work whether ppl like it or not.
Also there is NO gay conspiracy theory on his site; he is NOT attacking anyone who's gay; he is JUST TALKING ABOUT HOW GAY DESIGNERS IN PARTICULAR HAVE DOMINATED THE FASHION INDUSTRY NEGATIVELY BY FORCING WOEMN TO LOOK LIKE BOYS AND LOSE TOO MUCH WEIGHT PUTTING THEIR HEALTH AT RISK AND DYING FOR THEIR JOB- which is neither healthy nor acceptable nor even normal.
If he were talking about STRAIGHT designers pushing for a certain look at the expense of women for instance (like Eli Saab and Ralph Lauren yes there are some straight designers ! But they're the minority) or even some straight women designers pushing for an agenda at the expense of a healthy and real body image for women, then no one would DREAM of questioning his theories!
But the sad thing is ppl question his theory ONLY BECAUSE IT ISN'T PC AND MAKES THEM UNCOMFORTABLE! That's fine but THAT ISN'T SCIENCE.
Other than that your comment was great Tom and I agree what he does is admirable for women.
And to Danielle and those into character bashing:
HE'S APPROACHING THINGS FROM A SCIENTIFIC ANGLE AND THOSE WHO COME TO HIS SITE SHOULD DO THE SAME! That's just keeping it real- not being against any weight or orientation. But ppl have the right to have a scientific argument, and if we don't agree we should come up with a counter argument that's convincing not attack their character . Character bashing only makes the one doing it look bad- and I haven't seen Eric indulging in that.
This site IS talking about science , Danielle, so Greg is right: With all due respect, if you're NOT interested in science, only in PC and character bashing why the hell do you keep coming back to this site??
Just because things are not politically correct doens't make them untrue, you need to study the argument objectively and rationally or not bother coming here. If Eric were not so polite he would have banned yr comments long ago as they're not objective and full of personal attacks to someone you don't even know.
Danielle and Whipped Honey, a lot of stuff Eric says makes sense AND is backed up by some models in the industry regarding his theories of why models are so sickly dying thin, and just because something isn't PC and you don't like it doesn't make it untrue. Bron is right that many of the high fashion models are masculine looking, in one of the photos Cindy Crawford that Eric posted she looks like a man!! If she were feminine then there is no way she would look like that however the angle and lighting!! She might look unattractive on a bad day but she WOULDN'T LOOK UNFEMININE.
Also yes as a woman I agree that for us the rape fantasy is common as it's only a fantasy where you get to pick the one you have sex with and it's unlike the reality, and all the stuff related to that you mentioned- and the fact that arousal and desire for women are 2 different things, unlike men who desire usually what they're aroused by.
However, Eric's points about homosexuality's becoming more tolerated than ever during the past 10 yrs and that having a negative effect as far as forcing models to literally starve themselves do death which is wrong and inhuman is also true. And can be proven as it's backed up by some models online if you take the time to research and look. Models having experienced this behaviour know the reason why and have no reason to lie.
Again just because you don't like something and it's not politically correct doesn't make it untrue. And you could come up with counter arguments without being insulting to Eric or others. I don't know the guy but he HASN'T INSULTED any of you when he talks about his arguments which he is entitled to discuss, and if you disagree with what he says so much& find no merit in the site one would wonder why you bother coming back to fight? Insulting the authour just because you disagree with him and calling him names just makes the reader think poorly of you because you disrespect those who disagree with yr opinions- and you insult ppl who have beliefs that aren't PC. We can disagree with others without disrespecting them. Your attitudes are uncalled for and reflect badly on you. I wonder how you would feel if Eric continuously insulted and called you names every time you disagree with him the way you do with him?
We need to respect others' and agree to disagree , things can be true even if not |PC or liked by others. He deserves respect for coming up with this interesting and informative site- whether or not we disagree with some of all the content.
And FYI there ARE GTREAT HETRO MALE DESIGNERS - AND HETRO FEMALE DESIGNERS - AND LESBIAN DESIGNERS, so NO contrary to yr belief what ppl wear doesn't have to correspond to what gay MALE designers want only - with absolutely NO diversity and women dying- if it weren'r for the unfortunate fact that as Eric says they are the ones to DOMINATE THE INDUSTRY- I SAY UNFORTUNATE AS PPL HAVE DIED COZ OF THEIR NUTTY STANDARDS NOT COZ OF THEIR SEXUAL ORIENTATION. I'm not attacking ppl's weight or orientation. Only the fact that some women have to died to fulfill some gay designers crazy unreal ideal. Nothing more.
Eric is pretty much doing the same, & the fact he wants a hetro alternative running alongside for other women is to his credit frankly.
And there is a LONG LIST OF GREAT HETRO DESIGNERS POSTED ONLINE BY THE WAY; WILL FIND AND POST IT FOR YOU): ONE OF THE BEST HETRO MALE DESIGNERS IS RALPH LAUREN.
Learn to treat others with respect EVEN if you don't agree with them; that's class and intelligence. I couldn't find one instance of Eric disrespecting either Danielle or Whipped Honey or calling them names. Only the opposite.
Good luck Eric, and I admire yr putting up with unfair attacks and disrespect in an age where sadly being PC is considered more important than being truthful , saying what you really believe even if unpopular, and backing it up by stats and science. Good luck.
to Oksana no she doesn't need to lose weight she looks great, and it's pathetic how YOU are brainwashed by the industry's ideals of beauty. There is healthy thin and then there is sickly thin. Size 12 is reasonable not fat. She said 12 NOT 16 or 18 or 20! And she looks great.
Not everybody is either thin or fat, there is a happy medium. And she is healthy slim. She WOULD be anorexic if she became the weight they wanted at her height it's not healthy or necessary. Yes some ppl look good as a size 10 or 8 but it doesn't work for everybody and NOBODY should have to starve themselves to keep any damn job! If the standards of the designers were realistic you wouldn't see models literally falling down dead after their show! Nor would you see such anorexia and suffering!
Not everyone is naturally VERY THIN TO EMACATION POINT- THAT DOESN'T MEAN THEY CAN'T BE HEALTHY THIN. SIZE 12 IS NORMAL. IT'S NOT SUPER THIN BUT IT'S NORMAL HEALTHY THIN. ABOVE THAT WOULD BE TOO MUCH FOR A MODEL BUT NOT FOR THE AVERAGE PERSON.
Size 10 or 8 is only healthy if it's workable for the person without starving themselves and is healthy and consistent with their height. She looks toned and slim not flabby! Get real and get a life! You're the one who needs to wake up.
Carlyn they are NOT creepy or shallow; they are talking about the psychology of beauty as related to certain elements like models that are too thin and masculine and why they are like that, and the definition of feminine beauty. The topic is NOT shallow and is of great interest to many ppl who think rationally rather than over emotionally on topics or take stuff too personally.
In this context it's normal that they would compare/ study beautiful and not so pretty photos and make comparisons - that doesn't make the study "creepy" or "shallow"
If you find this site "shallow" it's probably because you are thinking in a limited way and probably shouldn't waste yr time or others' on this site.
To Joseph 18 the writer of this site is a MAN NOT A WOMAN , smartass, and he isn't trying to do any of the things you say. You should read the intent behind the site before judging, and if yr really a psychology major you need to be more objective and study the arguments presented instead of insulting the author's character- and same to no 19. You need to respect ppl even if you don't agree with them, and just because something isn't PC doesn't make it untrue.
More interesting comments by male hetro readers on previous article:
BenInTheWoods
13 October 2009 10:32AM
straight men don't like girls that look like 12 year old boys ....
I'll take a fit healthy type over a skinny heroin mangled body any day. Is there any other choice??? Lagerfeld and his ilk are so far up their own arses that the real world must seem a very long way off
Stealthbong
13 October 2009 5:36AM
If Karl Lagerfeld were a real person - and not made of plastic, and he lived in the real world - not one where people live on fags and prozac and are past it by 25, he would know very well that people do NOT (least of all, men) prefer to look at skinny, junked-up waifs, to looking at someone who looks normal and won't break in half if you hug her.
What a wanker that man is.
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5ynic
13 October 2009 10:40AM
The guy's an idiot.
Personally, I'm attracted to skinny women more than rounder women.
However, my idea of a skinny woman is a good few sizes up from some of the martian freaks paraded on the catwalk. To pretend his industry is the follower rather than the leader in this bizarre distortion of body-image is puerile fantasy.
Let him say what he likes, but let us move away from giving these fools the oxygen of publicity. I fervently hope that in another generation the world of these fashionistas will sem as quaint and irrelevant to mainstream society as the foxhunting crowd does now.
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mikozero
13 October 2009 11:16AM
i've spent 38 years on this earth.
i've spent my entire life enjoying 'the banter' of large groups of men (6 brothers, school, collage, the navy, and then working on civil engineering and electrical engineering projects)
i have never heard a man express 'an interest' (if you know what i mean) in a fashion model.
ever.
in fact the one phase that pops into my head (in relation to the subject) goes along the lines of "who the hell wants to end up with a girl like that ? sleeping next to skinny girls is like sharing a bed with a bag of spanners"
so apparently not only are they not actually attractive they are crap for snuggling as well :P
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Akit
13 October 2009 1:15PM
yeah and i like to see poeple that look 'alive' at least, not like 'walking corpse features' Kaka Lagerfield. The man is a fool
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chunkylimey
13 October 2009 1:33PM
I think the rule should be that if you want to design clothes for a gender you have to be attracted to that gender.
Of course this means suddenly all Fashion designers would be bisexual for business reasons but the test would be that you have to french kiss your models before each show.
Then the business tension would be between what people feel comfortable wearing and what the designer wants them to look like. A much more Darwinian approach to fashion ;)
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shoothelip
13 October 2009 4:40PM
there's an argument that goes along the lines of the modern fashion model being something closer to the pubescent male that gay designers like Lagerfeld desire, henceforth skinny in. Round buxom women out. oh I don't care...I know that I wasn't so erly answering this article but could I please have lots of credits.
And from a hetro woman:
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anna1000
13 October 2009 10:53PM
A doctor told me that men like curves on women because it shows they're producing oestrogen. Maybe Karl doesn't really find women attractive? Most men I know say that sleeping with a skinny woman is like being with a boy. I think designers just aren't that clever and can't make their clothes look good on anything but a straight up and down coathanger.
resurrected.
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pretzelberg
14 October 2009 12:10AM
anna1000
Maybe Karl doesn't really find women attractive?
Wow. You may be onto something there ...
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sarahgee76
14 October 2009 10:19AM
This from the man that has chosen a 5"2 size 12 chav as the face of Chanel?
If that isnt round I dont know what is!
How can anyone take his opinion seriously? What hypocrisy!
We all know that the fashion industry is headed by gay men of course we dont see real women on the catwalk.
And a final copy& paste from the article of a young hetro man posing the VERY question you answered in your site!! Here is his comment:
Benito36
12 October 2009 8:37PM
This may be terribly innapropriate, and perhaps more an indication of my ignorance of the fashion world, but could it be that gay, male fashion designers are creating super-thin women's clothes within a subconscious attempt at making women look like young men?
(The only difference is he thinks the attempt is subconcious):
Maybe some ppl are actually waking up and smelling the coffee huh):? Anyway food for thought so hope you find the articles I posted interesting and helpful.
Here is a really insightful one I found, an article about Karl Lagerfield being a jerk and bitchy because a famous German magazine decided that they are going to STOP using stick thin models for their mag and start using HEALTHY NORMAL SLIM WOMEN AS OPPOSED TO SICKLY THIN BOYISH WOMEN!!
Apparantly the magazine is sick of having to airbrush the models afterwards to make them look less EMACIATED , and so Karl got angry saying that only fat ppl or 'mummies' as he called them would want to see anyone who isn't skinny! Yeah right!):, promoting anger from the general public, and here some comments from hetro men who commented below the article talking about how hetro men want natural women with curves and NOT skinny women who look like boys!!
Here are some I copied and pasted for the site Eric
Surely it's not beyond the wit of so-called top designers to design clothes for women, and not stick-insects. It's not only 'fat mummies' who object to zero sized models, as a straight male I like women who look like women, and not small boys"
'Still, what should we expect from a man who designed T-shirts that read "For Skinny People"?'
I'm guessing they don't go up to XXL, do they?
Really surprising thing about Herr Lagerfeld is the white hair - I really thought it would be brown, considering where his head must be most of the time.
"Flat chested size zero models most closely resemble young boys...
...there really is nothing more to add.
It's quite simple. Yes, this is fuelled by misogyny but it's also clearly motivated by sheer laziness. It is far simpler to design something for a human clothes hanger than it is to spend the effort necessary to design something for a woman who, God forbid, has some womanly curves. The 'ideal' woman used to be 36-24-36 or an hourglass not an ironing board. What is so scary about curves? (Good question huh):
And I like women who look like women, not boys (or underage girls for that matter) – otherwise I might as well be 100% straight in my æsthetic tastes.
While I don't claim to speak for every heterosexual in the Galaxy, I personally think breasts and an arse exponentially more attractive than angular shoulders and protruding collar bones.
I think it would be a very good thing to change the word "model" from meaning an ideal of beauty to meaning a rather freakish looking person, also I am sick to death of the word "curvacious" sort of meaning fat, no, curves are the natural shape of a woman and are to do with their skeletons, not anything to do with fat at all, the ultimate compliment on a woman's body I can think of is to say it's curvacious, which means it visibly shows all of the wonderful natural shape that has made woman the figure and muse for so much art over the millenia, let's not let a half dead German robot try and change our minds about that, or anything else for that matter.
Here's the article, check it out as I find the comments left by ppl support what you say in your site.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2009/oct/12/lagerfeld-size-zero-thin-models?commentpage=2#start-of-comments
And finally another interesting one
But as you always say and you are right sadly they just discuss the problem of being too sickly skinny and never discuss the reason why! Wonder why huh?):
http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2006-09-25-thin-models_x.htm
And check this one out , it's an article by the New York Times entitled "When is Thin Too Thin?"
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/21/fashion/21MODELS.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1
Hi Eric here's an interesting site/ blog on models being too thin if you like to check it out
audreybrashich.blogs.com/.../the_skinny_model.../2/
to Mary your question is foolish and show you didn't understand the purpose of the site; it's not critique a 13 yr old's looks; its explaining why the fashion industry would even WANT her boyish unattractive type of look to begin with because while she is NOT ugly she is definitely NOT feminine and NOT very attractive; that might not be PC but it's true. Wake up and smell the coffee!!
to Tim and YOU don't get the point of this site!
well,
for all those photographer interested to photograph Russian and Ukrainian models, there is a service for that finally, and it looks good:
www.phototours-ukraine.com
Wake up and smell the coffee!
To Maria: Good for you, you are one of the few ppl who actually GET THE POINT of this site, I am a straight woman and totally AGREE with what you say.
To those who like to criticize the site wITHOUT first understanding what it's about:
Women or men who keep criticizing the site and author either don't get the point of the site (which is about providing a feminine alternative in the fashion industry for women for their benefit and that of hetro men, rather than sickly thin models who ARE masculine and look like teen boys to please the asthetic look most gay designers prefer and end up dying) So most ppl who oppose the site either totally MISunderstand the idea of the site and think it's meant to tell women what beauty is and how to look which it's not- it's talking about what's suitable for fashion models in the industry and what's appealing to the genral public OR it's ppl wanting to be PC and 'cool' by defending the gay community - when the irony this site is NOT about attacking gays; it only talks about the negative impact of gays being the ONLY ones to dominate the fashion industry which is TRUE even if it's not 'PC" and let's fact it: It is unhealthy AND abnormal 1st for women: as some models have literally died after eating disorders for being too thin to please some nutty gay designer's dream as to what looks good on a woman i.e. being sickly scary thin and dying as opposed to being normal healthy thin, and creates eating disorders for women who ARE NOT models but feel pressured by the media to be stick thin to please this dumb 'ideal' the media and industry put forth because they don't know any better!
Great post Maria, totally agree with you! And good luck Eric, great, and realistic site backed up by research even if it offends ppl who are too much into PC and don't have the brains to realize something can be true even if it's not politically correct. Or is criticized by some women who think they have to be a certain ideal or men thinking they have to defend the ideal of what they want!
Wake up ppl it's not about that! Get a grip!
It's about the fasion industry being dominated by gay designers who asthetically prefer a boyish dying skinny unhealthy look that has pushed many models literally to death! Eric is doing women a favour with this website, and while many of us may not agree that all the women he finds attractive are so to everyone he never said they had to be! It's just that most of them ARE more feminine than the average fashion model - like it or not! And that IS the point!
At least the notion of feminine beauty promoted on THIS SITE is FAR more HEALTHY REALISTIC AND ATTAINABLE TO MANY that the skinny thin literally dying mannish model look!
Finally no one's saying that because the fashion models are masculine it makes them ugly, Eric never said that. However in their profession it makes sense that their is a more FEMININE alternative availabe for men and women from the general public who favour that, having that alternative would also REDUCE DANGEROUS EATING DISORDERS IN WOMEN IN GENERAL AND MODELS IN PARTICULAR!
NOTHING IS PERFECT BUT THIS SITE IS DOING US A BETTER FAVOUR THAN SOME UNREALISTIC NUTTY NOTION OF WHAT GAY DESIGNERS FIND ATTRACTIVE WHICH - SURPRISE!- MOST PPL MEN AND WOMEN ACTUALLY DO NOT FIND ATTRACTIVE!
The fact that many of us DID think many models attractive just goes to show how much airbrushing on a model can make her look more attractive and deceiving to the eye! Hell I used to think Cindy Crawford was reasonably attractive but when I saw her pics here she looks like a man! There is NO way Eric can get her to look like that to prove a point; on a bad day a bad photo will make her look LESS ATTRACTIVE SURE BUT NOT LESS FEMININE!
So if you're only reason for coming here is to fight with the author or try to feel more attractive and defend yr looks or yr here to be PC and take offense at anything you don't like this site isn't for you, the site is only for ppl interested in beauty, fashion, femininity from a scientific viewpoint even if it's not PC - AND actually have a valid counterargument to counter the author's argument with IF they disagree- rather than childish character attacks, which luckily Eric has NOT stooped to in response.
It's an interesting site and his theory on WHY the fashion industry is SO SCREWED UP is fascinating; take off your "PC blinders" and "need to validate my looks feeling" and you might actually LEARN something new!
And rememeber that if the site was talking about STRAIGHT designers - yes there are some like Eli Saab and Ralph Lauren to name a few- trying to push their asthetic ideal on women and THEIR VIEWS, most ppl would understand that it's not acceptable. But because the site discusses that its GAY DESIGNERS committing this offense some ppl not all automatically put on their "PC blinders" and feel the need to be "cool" and automatically assume the argment is just an attack on gay ppl which it's NOT- and then end up being argumentative and bashing the author WITHOUT EVEN really understanding what the site is about in the first place!
It's fine that some things make some ppl uncomfortable as they're not PC- but that's NOT science - and this site is ABOUT SCIENTIC RESEARCH and NOT about what's PC or not; it's refreshing for the open minded as we've all been brainwashed by the media to having to be PC about everything and about having to agree with what the media or industry says it's beautiful when it DAMN WELL ISN'T
Good luck Eric and admire you for putting up with crap from some ppl, GREAT post Maria, agree with everything you said - and with the arguments of the site.
So i bet kate beckinsale is about the same as sienna guillory Right?
You should put Anne Hathaway in yr attractive women's section, Eric, as she is attractive and feminine to many and healthy slim, and funnily enough her movie "The Devil Wears Prada" exempliefies nearly everything you say about this nutty fashion industry and their motives for hiring too skinny models, it was a hilarious movie if you saw it.
Sorry the comment on top is me.
Ok i am back after a few days of looking and reading some more.LOL I am just so confused about this jawline and ckeekbone thing.I am trying to find out if my cheeckbones and jawline are just as robust as Brigitte Bardots or if they are still in the feminine range.Sometimes i think i look a lot like her and then somehow i dont.If i have to i think i may send you some pics of myself but would rather not right now.Sometimes her jaw looks like mine like in this pic http://fyiitsagirlthing.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/tumblr_ldvpwjyea51qcw7bso1_500.jpg But then her jaw looks more square and sharp like in this pic http://cdn3.iofferphoto.com/img/item/157/045/786/2oOm.jpg.Then i see other women with my jaw that you post like Monica from FTV girls and Minka Dumont Kelly just to name a few.So if you could please help me with all i sure would be happy.
To Tom you are right he has interesting info to provide backed by science and what he's doing is admirable. He's also NOT trying to insult these women- but he has to make the point that many of them are masculine more than feminine to prove the whole of the site about feminity being important in women's looks for most of the hetro population which is true and just the way it is- regardless of whether it's PC or not, that's just biology.
He also stated that calling them masculine does NOT mean they're ugly nor is it an insult. Granted no women likes to be called masculine but he has to point out certain facts that correspond to science. And he has backed up his work whether ppl like it or not.
Also there is NO gay conspiracy theory on his site; he is NOT attacking anyone who's gay; he is JUST TALKING ABOUT HOW GAY DESIGNERS IN PARTICULAR HAVE DOMINATED THE FASHION INDUSTRY NEGATIVELY BY FORCING WOEMN TO LOOK LIKE BOYS AND LOSE TOO MUCH WEIGHT PUTTING THEIR HEALTH AT RISK AND DYING FOR THEIR JOB- which is neither healthy nor acceptable nor even normal.
If he were talking about STRAIGHT designers pushing for a certain look at the expense of women for instance (like Eli Saab and Ralph Lauren yes there are some straight designers ! But they're the minority) or even some straight women designers pushing for an agenda at the expense of a healthy and real body image for women, then no one would DREAM of questioning his theories!
But the sad thing is ppl question his theory ONLY BECAUSE IT ISN'T PC AND MAKES THEM UNCOMFORTABLE! That's fine but THAT ISN'T SCIENCE.
Other than that your comment was great Tom and I agree what he does is admirable for women.
And to Danielle and those into character bashing:
HE'S APPROACHING THINGS FROM A SCIENTIFIC ANGLE AND THOSE WHO COME TO HIS SITE SHOULD DO THE SAME! That's just keeping it real- not being against any weight or orientation. But ppl have the right to have a scientific argument, and if we don't agree we should come up with a counter argument that's convincing not attack their character . Character bashing only makes the one doing it look bad- and I haven't seen Eric indulging in that.
This site IS talking about science , Danielle, so Greg is right: With all due respect, if you're NOT interested in science, only in PC and character bashing why the hell do you keep coming back to this site??
Just because things are not politically correct doens't make them untrue, you need to study the argument objectively and rationally or not bother coming here. If Eric were not so polite he would have banned yr comments long ago as they're not objective and full of personal attacks to someone you don't even know.
Does she has a strong jaw like Brigitte Bordot?
Danielle and Whipped Honey, a lot of stuff Eric says makes sense AND is backed up by some models in the industry regarding his theories of why models are so sickly dying thin, and just because something isn't PC and you don't like it doesn't make it untrue. Bron is right that many of the high fashion models are masculine looking, in one of the photos Cindy Crawford that Eric posted she looks like a man!! If she were feminine then there is no way she would look like that however the angle and lighting!! She might look unattractive on a bad day but she WOULDN'T LOOK UNFEMININE.
Also yes as a woman I agree that for us the rape fantasy is common as it's only a fantasy where you get to pick the one you have sex with and it's unlike the reality, and all the stuff related to that you mentioned- and the fact that arousal and desire for women are 2 different things, unlike men who desire usually what they're aroused by.
However, Eric's points about homosexuality's becoming more tolerated than ever during the past 10 yrs and that having a negative effect as far as forcing models to literally starve themselves do death which is wrong and inhuman is also true. And can be proven as it's backed up by some models online if you take the time to research and look. Models having experienced this behaviour know the reason why and have no reason to lie.
Again just because you don't like something and it's not politically correct doesn't make it untrue. And you could come up with counter arguments without being insulting to Eric or others. I don't know the guy but he HASN'T INSULTED any of you when he talks about his arguments which he is entitled to discuss, and if you disagree with what he says so much& find no merit in the site one would wonder why you bother coming back to fight? Insulting the authour just because you disagree with him and calling him names just makes the reader think poorly of you because you disrespect those who disagree with yr opinions- and you insult ppl who have beliefs that aren't PC. We can disagree with others without disrespecting them. Your attitudes are uncalled for and reflect badly on you. I wonder how you would feel if Eric continuously insulted and called you names every time you disagree with him the way you do with him?
We need to respect others' and agree to disagree , things can be true even if not |PC or liked by others. He deserves respect for coming up with this interesting and informative site- whether or not we disagree with some of all the content.
And FYI there ARE GTREAT HETRO MALE DESIGNERS - AND HETRO FEMALE DESIGNERS - AND LESBIAN DESIGNERS, so NO contrary to yr belief what ppl wear doesn't have to correspond to what gay MALE designers want only - with absolutely NO diversity and women dying- if it weren'r for the unfortunate fact that as Eric says they are the ones to DOMINATE THE INDUSTRY- I SAY UNFORTUNATE AS PPL HAVE DIED COZ OF THEIR NUTTY STANDARDS NOT COZ OF THEIR SEXUAL ORIENTATION. I'm not attacking ppl's weight or orientation. Only the fact that some women have to died to fulfill some gay designers crazy unreal ideal. Nothing more.
Eric is pretty much doing the same, & the fact he wants a hetro alternative running alongside for other women is to his credit frankly.
And there is a LONG LIST OF GREAT HETRO DESIGNERS POSTED ONLINE BY THE WAY; WILL FIND AND POST IT FOR YOU): ONE OF THE BEST HETRO MALE DESIGNERS IS RALPH LAUREN.
Learn to treat others with respect EVEN if you don't agree with them; that's class and intelligence. I couldn't find one instance of Eric disrespecting either Danielle or Whipped Honey or calling them names. Only the opposite.
Good luck Eric, and I admire yr putting up with unfair attacks and disrespect in an age where sadly being PC is considered more important than being truthful , saying what you really believe even if unpopular, and backing it up by stats and science. Good luck.
to Oksana no she doesn't need to lose weight she looks great, and it's pathetic how YOU are brainwashed by the industry's ideals of beauty. There is healthy thin and then there is sickly thin. Size 12 is reasonable not fat. She said 12 NOT 16 or 18 or 20! And she looks great.
Not everybody is either thin or fat, there is a happy medium. And she is healthy slim. She WOULD be anorexic if she became the weight they wanted at her height it's not healthy or necessary. Yes some ppl look good as a size 10 or 8 but it doesn't work for everybody and NOBODY should have to starve themselves to keep any damn job! If the standards of the designers were realistic you wouldn't see models literally falling down dead after their show! Nor would you see such anorexia and suffering!
Not everyone is naturally VERY THIN TO EMACATION POINT- THAT DOESN'T MEAN THEY CAN'T BE HEALTHY THIN. SIZE 12 IS NORMAL. IT'S NOT SUPER THIN BUT IT'S NORMAL HEALTHY THIN. ABOVE THAT WOULD BE TOO MUCH FOR A MODEL BUT NOT FOR THE AVERAGE PERSON.
Size 10 or 8 is only healthy if it's workable for the person without starving themselves and is healthy and consistent with their height. She looks toned and slim not flabby! Get real and get a life! You're the one who needs to wake up.
Hugh: I think your rational and realistic argument does match what Eric is saying
Daniel and Whipped Honey are just rude and incapable of rational arguments so they get too emotive and attack others.
Carlyn they are NOT creepy or shallow; they are talking about the psychology of beauty as related to certain elements like models that are too thin and masculine and why they are like that, and the definition of feminine beauty. The topic is NOT shallow and is of great interest to many ppl who think rationally rather than over emotionally on topics or take stuff too personally.
In this context it's normal that they would compare/ study beautiful and not so pretty photos and make comparisons - that doesn't make the study "creepy" or "shallow"
If you find this site "shallow" it's probably because you are thinking in a limited way and probably shouldn't waste yr time or others' on this site.
Great comment Brian and one of the few objective ones that actually makes sense AND addresses the issue. Agree with you 100%
To Joseph 18 the writer of this site is a MAN NOT A WOMAN , smartass, and he isn't trying to do any of the things you say. You should read the intent behind the site before judging, and if yr really a psychology major you need to be more objective and study the arguments presented instead of insulting the author's character- and same to no 19. You need to respect ppl even if you don't agree with them, and just because something isn't PC doesn't make it untrue.
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