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Mon, 07/16/2012 - 16:07 Kyan Nasion placement and attractiveness

What kind of weird conclusion is this?
So because a FEW white Americans find those positions of the nasion is more attractive the mask is wrong? WHAT?! Because a FEW people think that way? Don't you get how wrong that is. Until you question not only white but also black Americans, Asian Americans etc. and ask more people, you can't make that conclusion.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 12:10 Visitor Stephen Marquardt Phi (Golden ratio) mask formally refuted

"it is well-known that this region of the world produces, on average, the most beautiful people". Bullsh*t!! Understand that your statement is purely based on YOUR opionion. MIXED people tend to be more attractive, not more European looking ones. A white woman's beauty is rated waaaaaaaaaay to highly in my opinion.

Sun, 07/15/2012 - 23:21 Marianne The transsexual parade otherwise known as the Victoria’s Secret lingerie show: part 1

HAHAHAHA And all the Fashion Industry is laughing at all the posters that are still defending that androgeny (including both sides of it) is not needed, what the poster said is becoming not just true but more than just a trend, and you can see it all over the High Couture runways and magazines... oh and let's not forget the gorgeous Miss Canada contestant. More than just looking at what is supposed to be achieved (a model is just that, a model, we're not supposed to fill-in with the measures, otherwise we would end with the notion that more than 90% - it's just a round number and its not based on any specific data - of the women are not suitable for wearing those clothes), its more the designer's idea of his / her design, but non the less, the truth about figures remains. Maybe you could say that two or more of the top women fashion models are men... and yeah, it's because the looks... that just happen to be like? Yes you guessed male proportion, are they guilty? No, I don't think so, then is the designers or their houses? Don't think neither, its us, the ones praising and awing every time they pull their models: Try Pejic modeling brassieres or the Philips epilator advertisements, both are targeting gender women, but they use? Yes you guessed it, and this is just the beginning. The appealing of the VS models is not about the bodies, is the picture and how the clothes are designed, curvy or not. But the truth remains.

Sun, 07/15/2012 - 22:45 nicegirl Fashion models and mannequins in East Asia

Erick, you also said that you would put jaclyn smith in the attractive women section.Are you putting her in there because she is feminine or because she is attractive and just feminine enough to make the cut?I notice she has a lot of masculine features.

Sun, 07/15/2012 - 22:23 nicegirl Fashion models and mannequins in East Asia

Comment number 5 is mine.

Sun, 07/15/2012 - 17:09 Visitor Fashion models and mannequins in East Asia

Rose byrne,Minka Kelly and many more women on this site have large chins and square jaws,but they get put up as feminine.As far as i can tell the only thing about Frida Aasen face that is unfeminine is her cheekbones.Erik has even said that Minka Kelly does not have a square jaw,but it is no different from Frida`s.Some things on this site just do not add up sometimes.Even the feminine skull on the feminine VS masculine page has a square jaw,it is quit clear.I wish Erik could clear this up.

Sat, 07/14/2012 - 14:10 Dan Fashion models and mannequins in East Asia

Nicegirl: Frida Aasen is pretty but her facial features are slightly less feminine than Britt Ekland because she has more pronounced chin and a square jaw. But the upper third of her face is feminine and cute, in my opinion.

Sat, 07/14/2012 - 14:01 Dan Fashion models and mannequins in East Asia

Great article! I agree with you, although I have seen a different research!

Another scientists have discovered that white people tend to choose other races when asked to rate which faces they find most attractive. These scientists discovered that white men prefer the facial features of Asian women while white women go for the faces of black men. Are human beings 'hardwired' to find different the faces of different races attractive?

The Department of Psychology at Cardiff University, which carried out the study, says the results of their research are reflected in society. Men and women aged between 18 and 30 were shown 600 faces of the opposite sex and asked to grade them for attractiveness.

The women tended to go for black male faces, followed by white and then Asian.Men plumped for Asian women, followed by white, then black.Government figures show around one-and-a-half times more black men marrying white women than the other way around in the UK.More white men have also been found to marry East Asian women - compared to Asian men marrying white women. Dr Michael Lewis is who led the research project.

Anyway I've always rated as most attractive the European women. I congratulate Erik to use as example of female beauty to Britt Ekland, beautiful scandinavian big-eyed actress. I also had set as example to Elke Sommer, another gorgeous teutonic actress.

Sat, 07/14/2012 - 10:57 Visitor Fashion models and mannequins in East Asia

I fail to see how Frida Aasen has features shifted towards the Asiatic norm; her face seems extremely European to me. While it is true that you are probably more well-read on this pseudo-science (if it can even be called that) of objective beauty, I think the reality of facial features is far more complicated than you imagine. I would conjecture the following. If you view the space of facial features -- for instance, nose length would be one dimension, facial width another -- ethnic groups will not fall into well-defined regions. Rather, each group will fall into a number of volumes that may not even be well-connected. Of course, it goes without saying that there will also be some overlap between groups. A short nose combined with a certain type of forehead and chin may appear extremely European. On the other hand, when combined with a different set of features, a short nose may make one appear distinctly Asian or African. In this sense, it is difficult to even speak of norms, for the norm may correspond to an entirely different ethnic group. Norms are typically only well-defined for small isolated groups of people; even children occasionally look strikingly different from both parents.

Well, since you have demonstrated in the past your obsession that Nordics are leagues ahead of everybody else in terms of attractiveness, I will entertain the following idea. Perhaps your ideal group of people are so afraid of tainting their otherworldly beauty, that they refuse to interbreed with non-Nordics (those filthy subhuman mongoloids). In this case, perhaps a norm does exist for the Nordic race. How convenient! Now all you have to do is equate beauty with looking Nordic.

Me? Well I am of the opinion that Mongoloids, of a different type than previously mentioned, are the most attractive people. However, this is just my opinion. I am not going to make bold claims with false certainty (you didn't even try to hide it much) based on a few "investigations." Remember that the topic of this site can hardly even be called a science. Even in medicine, researchers show more discretion when presenting their findings.

Thu, 07/12/2012 - 19:16 nicegirl Fashion models and mannequins in East Asia

I don`t understand what makes Frida Aasen face less feminine than Britt Ekland,please help?Is it her chin because it looks the same to me?Please please help?!

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 11:39 just giving a g... Ekaterina Joukova: Why do modeling agencies not book me?

Emily girl is wrong in so many aspects; however, she is completly right about one thing: at the end of the day, swedish still look better than anyone else from Ireland to Russia and India, Japan, China, Africa etc etc etc.

Not saying that there aren't hideous ugly people in Swende, but even the hideous ugly people of Swende are more of appreciation than any hideous ugly people of elsewhere.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 10:52 just giving a g... The face of a Neanderthal woman

besides, why don't stick to only one nick name instead of multiple pseudo names that you use in order to pass the impression that many people share the same wrong and laughable ideas with you?

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 10:38 Just giving a g... The face of a Neanderthal woman

Hi, bendaria

then what is the point in asians going through rhinoplasty when they already have noses that are "equal" to those of nordic people? I cannot imagine a scenario where an asian girl dreams of making a rhinoplasty because she hates her "nordic like" nose and wants a western european "masculine" nose.

As for your picture to picture comparison. What could we take from it when you bring us many photos of a european female showing her many angles giving us the possiblity for better analysing her nose and at the same you only bring us a single picture of asian girl showing a single angle and besides, suspect of nose surgery as any asian model must be.

it's not so elementary as you pose

Sat, 07/07/2012 - 04:29 Visitor What form of women’s body shape was preferred in medieval Europe?

Nouveau art woman depicted as slender?
Google Alfons Mucha.
Sure they were not quite fat
but definitely not slender.

Fri, 07/06/2012 - 20:50 Erik Welcome!

Lindsey: You illustrated examples of women who have broader shoulders or narrow hips without being masculinized by referring to people with a functional Y chromosome but complete insensitivity to androgens, but the latter are not women or men; these are freaks of nature lacking a sex.

You mentioned that some genes on the Y chromosomes, that women do not have analogs of, make bones larger, which is correct, but all this shows is that masculinization is not limited to the effects of androgens.

You have expressed the opinion that the genetic default is having a narrow pelvis, but the evidence suggests that the default is having a female-like pelvis, which testosterone transforms by restricting growth in some places and enhancing it in others to end up with a masculine pelvis:

Technically, it is possible to have women with broad shoulders and narrow hips that have sex hormone profiles that are normal for women or even feminine because there are a large number of factors aside from sex hormones affecting bone growth, but such women will be uncommon; the greater the number of more male-like features, the rarer it will be that the sex hormone profiles are normal or feminine.

Even if a large number of high-fashion models are outliers by having a masculine appearance without having more masculine or less feminine sex hormone profiles, the appearance is one of masculinization. Focus on the appearance and reflect on why it is being exalted in the fashion industry.

Fri, 07/06/2012 - 08:05 Visitor What form of women’s body shape was preferred in medieval Europe?

Very interesting post! I wrote down some quotes from it. Especially the part about "Church goers have no problems being led by one who has reserved a spot in Hell" :)

Fri, 07/06/2012 - 06:35 lindsey Welcome!

This site is first of all sexist and insulting. As if women dont get critisized anougth for having masculine atributes. First of all not all women who have broader shoulders or narrow hips are masculinized, it just is a sign of having a different body type. The bone growth pattern in males is caused by genes on the Y chromosome along with testosterone. A person with Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome has XY chromosomes and a faulty androgen receptor gene. This causes the person to not respond to testosterone, as a result they develop as female but without overies. They grow tall, have narrow pelvices and often make good models. The reason for this is because the bone growth is caused by the gene on the Y chromosome. Girls with XX chromosomes and exposure to androgens from polycystic overies or adrenal tumors dont develop this type of bone structure. Tall fashion models with slim hips and broader shouldrer are like that due to genetic variation, not masculization. Not all men have the typical male shape, some have a shorter more rounded build. If anything the models on the catwalk have a more androgynouse build, as they show less signs of modification of there bones by reproductive hormones. Maybe carrying a broad hip structure was a disadvantage in some ancient tribes as it would slow the group down, women in groups where there was a need to have more children and who did not move around much may have been at an advantage if they had a wider pelvice. I would bet that a narrow pelvice is close to the genetic default, and that a wider pelvice is an adaption to increased environmental stress. The gendering of the human body by sex hormones has to be more radical when there is an environmental threat to survival, men have to be stronger and women have to have more children. Todays variation in body types probably date back to differences in the environment of peoples ancestors.

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 18:41 Erik The transsexual parade otherwise known as the Victoria’s Secret lingerie show: part 6

MimiCita: You said that high levels of estrogen in women and high levels of testosterone in men are associated with lower intelligence. Whereas I have not been in touch with the literature on sex hormones and cognition in recent years, I doubt it is this simplistic.

Based on my readings, now presumably outdated, sex hormones may enhance or diminish certain mental abilities, but they will do so to a small degree only. In some cases the relationship is curvilinear. A specific mental ability may increase with higher levels of testosterone in men, but diminish after a point, but at the same time, the highest expression of this mental ability will be seen in men with signs of exposure to high levels of testosterone at crucial developmental stages, suggesting that the specific mental ability is enhanced by testosterone provided the men can handle it; only a minority of men will develop without disturbances under high testosterone levels.

Whereas it is correct that more feminine women will be less oriented toward careers requiring an aggressive drive, fashion modeling is about posing and walking on stage, which femininity does not disfavor, and high intelligence is not a requirement. Even if the modeling gig extends to talking and asserting, top modeling agencies have the resources to find more feminine looking models that can talk well and assert themselves, and they can find sexy women, less feminine than the most beautiful ones, but still with strong appeal to heterosexual men, for jobs where sexiness is relevant, such as lingerie modeling. The big-breasted woman posted in the article, on whom you have commented, is partly in jest, not a serious argument, which may be evident if you read the text immediately preceding the pictures.

I agree that “screeching porn-star” types are not expected to be numerous among fashion models, but these women tend to be less attractive compared to what top modeling agencies could recruit for more respectable work, and often less feminine than average, which you have acknowledged. You may be interested in a more nuanced discussion of the physical appearance of porn stars:

According to you, “High-femininity inspires horniness in men. High-masculinity inspires admiration.” As far as I know, horniness in men is best stimulated by slightly masculinized women as they give the impression, which happens to be correct, that they are easier to engage in casual sex [no long-term commitment insisted upon].

You also said that “The more sexist a society (most of the third-world), the less masculine women are prized, the dumber and less advanced their societies tend to be.” There are thousands of cultures, and there may be some who are more gender egalitarian but also less technologically developed even if overall less technologically developed societies tend to be less respectful of women’s rights.

On the extent to which masculinized women may be prized, in Northern European cultures, which are among the most gender egalitarian, women can pursue more stereotypically male-oriented professions and activities with few people coming in the way or concerned about sex role reversal, but at the same time, I am not aware of any evidence that this translates to better aesthetic appreciation of non-feminine looks in women. So I think you are pursuing the wrong angle in understanding the physical appearance of high-fashion models. It is a simpler case of top-ranked fashion designers being able to get away with their preferences that the majority does not share.

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 11:49 Lily Why are Victoria’s Secret models so popular?

I don't think many people who are looking at this site are seeing it for what it is. At first, I didn't really get it either, but after looking around some more and actually taking the time to see what the author is saying, it makes more sense. I understand what Erik is saying when he says that high-fashioned models are "masculine." Years ago as a teen, I noticed that the models all have these really strong jawlines and boxy-looking faces. I always thought that maybe they had to have these types of faces because maybe it photographs "better"? I was also never really impressed with the supermodels bodies, either. Yes, most of them are in great shape, but they're long and stretched out and kind of lanky, and I never really thought they were all that shapely. I never really mentioned this to anyone though because if you're a woman and you say anything negative about other women--especially models--then you'll be called jealous and catty. But then a few years ago a friend mentioned how she saw Cindy Crawford on a tv show and thought that she looked like a man. I saw the episode and I had to agree, and I knew it was because of the jawline. I never really realized that it is a "masculine" look.

I never thought Giselle, Heidi, or Rachel Hunter were beautiful. Heidi is 'cute,' but not particularly beautiful. Giselle always looked average to me, and I couldn't understand why Rolling Stone named her the Most Beautiful Woman in the World, or why other female celebs compare themselves to her like she's this insanely beautiful creature. I can see the camera tricks and her poses where she tries to give her body more shape. In most of her photos, she poses with her a curve---her hips are usually way off to one side, and when she's photographed from the side, her back is curved way inward to try to give herself more of a butt.

Anyway, I get what Erik is saying. I don't think he's "bashing" anybody, I don't think he hates women or is even trying to say what women "should" look like. He has a point. The high fashioned models all have a similar look, and it's been that way for years.

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 10:20 William Kazak The transsexual parade otherwise known as the Victoria’s Secret lingerie show: part 6

Very interesting observation. I never thought of it quite that way; hormonal makeup, success, respect, estrogen, testosterone and beauty. Of course, everyone is unique and their ambitions and opportunities vary. Something to think about now when observing.

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 09:26 MimiCita The transsexual parade otherwise known as the Victoria’s Secret lingerie show: part 6

You know Erik, even though I am a feminist to my core, I am also a biologist and an anthropologist student. You have done an excellent job of explaining why very young, mostly northern european, big-breasted, small-waisted, large-buttocked, round-faced women are the most feminine. They have all the features that are anthropologically/biologically more feminine because they have higher levels of the hormone estrogen. The more masculine a woman appears, the more testosterone (for a woman) she has. These women tend to have smaller breasts, more muscle definition, square jaw lines, and....powerful demeanors.

I wanted to address your hypothesis that if masculinity versus femininity in women (and men) had more outlet in our very politically-correct society to be discussed, feminine women would be more concentrated in high-fashion. You are wrong.

One of the effects of high levels of estrogen in women and high levels of testosterone in men, compared to averages for each sex, is a lack of high intelligence (google studies done). These people are more "animal"; they are more visceral and less cerebral; they are more likely to be more attractive to the opposite sex (because they ARE more fertile in terms of their hormonal make-up). High levels of estrogen in women subverts higher intelligence so these women are more primed for reproduction (because proliferated reproduction needs less thinking and less intelligence, both of which hinder mindless reproduction). These very feminine women tend to be more marriage/baby oriented, less career-oriented, less powerful. Both men and women respect their opinions less (google studies done) and these women do not flourish in high-profile careers. Being an international model is one of these careers. A screeching porn-star type will NEVER be an Alessandra Ambrosio or Heidi Klum or Cindy Crawford because she lacks the testosterone-induced drive needed to establish herself at that level. She is not seen as powerful, commanding, able because she is not. THIS is one of the primary reasons why highly successful women in almost any career are typically more masculine than the porn-stars men desire at the visceral level. In fact, the most prominent porn-stars too are more masculine - they have the testosterone induced competitive/aggressive drive to climb to the very top. THIS is why highly-feminine women are not prominent in what humans have rightfully deemed powerful careers. The big-breasted blonde woman you posted does not look powerful; she looks child-like, vulnerable, and......stupid. She inspires contempt in people. Ambrosio looks posh, fierce, and capable. She inspires respect.

As to why men are also attracted to these masculine women anyway? Firstly, these women are less fertile not infertile, and therefore evolution hasn’t taken men’s attraction to them completely away. Secondly, and more importantly, it is because attraction in western society is conditioned to be towards the whole person. High-femininity inspires horniness in men. High-masculinity inspires admiration (similar to how we respect male CEOs of big companies), and western society has made these feelings of respect/admiration/equality tantamount to attraction. And I say: good for society! Masculine women tend to be higher-IQ than extremely-feminine women and produce high-IQ children. Attraction in the west is finally more cerebral and less visceral. We are more “human” and less “animal” if you must. The more sexist a society (most of the third-world), the less masculine women are prized, the dumber and less advanced their societies tend to be.

Thu, 07/05/2012 - 02:44 lily More on Hugh Hefner, founder of Playboy magazine

The whole point of her statement was that Eric's trying to "change" the ideal of what we find attractive, yet he's still claiming the bigger breasts are what the hetero-man really wants. Yes, women know this, and this is why women get breast implants. If the fashion industry can "cause" eating disorders and that is wrong, why is it any different if you read sites like this and once AGAIN are told that the majority of hetero men are going to prefer big breasts on women? It isn't any different. In fact, women in the fashion industry don't have big breasts, as we've seen with the comparisons of the models vs. the "glamour" models. The glamour models have huge, natural breasts, and the fashion models don't. But gee, women still get breast implants, don't they? It's because of guys like Eric saying that that's what women "should" look like. So yes, it is mens fault that we have self esteem issues with our breasts. We're told that if we want to please men and be attractive, we're supposed to have big breast, and the only way to do that if you don't already have big breasts, is with implants. As far as penis size goes, mens penises aren't on display wherever they go. We don't know what size penis they have unless they show us. Plus, penis size is important during sexual intercourse for the woman. Breasts are secondary, and don't change the feeling of sex or men.

Wed, 07/04/2012 - 21:43 Erik Extreme femininity

D.: A less feminine-looking hairline is one that is receding at the temples. In this diagram, more feminine on the left, you can see how women tend to have more hair in the temple region.

The cheekbones thing may be clearer if you read this and scroll down on the linked page to read comment #42.

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 19:20 Lily Attractive women that unfortunately have small breasts

I agree. These same guys who criticize women for having small breasts will always contradict themselves and say that women shouldn't get implants, just deal with you were born with, and to stop "whining." It's very hypocritical.

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 03:07 D. Extreme femininity

By the way, could you explain the concept of the feminine hairline and the masculine one? I tried to deduct this from some of the images but I'm not sure I made the correct conclusion.

Also, when it comes to cheekbones, maybe it's a good idea to somewhere make a note about the difference between the high cheekbones and the ones that are simple visible for the lack of fat deposits. I saw that in this article you described the proper ones as "sideways protruding" but I don't think that makes it clear enough. I'm pretty sure that what people actually like about this region of the face is the lack of chubby cheeks which would obscure the bone structure, not that they actually demand the bone to have another shape or size.