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Why are children used to model clothes for women in their 30s and 40s?

A few articles back, this blog was graced by 8D
writing, in her special style, as usual, grouchily,
“Other people are doing a better job,” sayeth she,
“and the success of their sites one can guarantee
because they address modeling issues unlike me,
namely, engaging the reader in news that’s lively,
instead of making them read the rants of a Nazi.”

Do thee, the reader, with 8D’s assessment agree?
The contents of two sites, cited by 8D, let us see.

The first is 5 resolutions, offered wholeheartedly
by a model and Claire who did on gender study.
What good is this, when they are not even privy
to those making them against the industry rally?

Next is the site of an ex-model, Heather; mamaV.
Listen to her talk about a problem that is thorny:

Aye, why use a girl to model a grown mommie?
Easy! Look at the dominant designers’ identity.
Then, ask what maketh these gentlemen horny?

MamaV too doesn’t have a clue; a useless sissy,
she is amusing, not making the designers pissy.
So answer, who’ll be changing things, I prithee.

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Comments

Hi,

Interesting ideas. But I really don't buy your general theme about gay men running the fashion business causing all the thin, young models. The fact is that men are most attracted to young women just after puberty. This has been pretty well documented and makes a lot of sense: young healthy women have the most remaining child bearing years, and therefore make excellent mates. It's basic biology--sex--and sex sells. Everyone, including women, recognize this on some level. So, for women to be young, thin and beautiful is a very desirable thing, at least as far as increasing the spread of ones genes to the next generation. It's all simple Darwinism, or more specifically, evolutionary psychology.

So, that's the basic science. And the basic truth, speaking as a heterosexual male, is that these young, thin models are outrageously attractive to men, even those with small breasts (most men I know prefer smaller breasts!). There is nothing more desirable to the average male, on pure physical terms. And for men, physical attraction matters a lot more than it does for women, again for basic biological reasons.

I know all this is truly shallow and in some ways sad, but it stems from millions of years of evolution. It's the way it is. We cannot mature as a species by denying our basic desires and where they come from. We might only mature by clearly articulating what is real and then move toward how to best cope with it in today's modern moral structure.

Rob: Your comment is absurd and unsupported by evidence.

Quote:

> The fact is that men are most attracted to young women just after puberty. This has been pretty well documented and makes a lot of sense: young healthy women have the most remaining child bearing years, and therefore make excellent mates.

Do you seriously believe this? Heterosexual men are expected to optimally prefer females in the age range where the combination of fertility and fecundity is at its peak. For white women this would be about age 25 (peak fecundity around age 22 and peak fertility around age 28). The optimally preferred age range would obviously be in the early- to mid-twenties. Consider the following study, which showed pictures of males and females ranging from ages 15-60 to homosexuals and heterosexuals. The graph shows the comparison between homosexual and heterosexual men.

Quote:

Partner age preferences in homosexual and heterosexual men.

The sexual appeal of faces (ages 18-60 years) of the desired sex to homosexual and heterosexual men. The mean ages (in years) of the participants were: homosexual men, 33.24 (SD (standard deviation) = 9.46, range = 18-50); heterosexual men, 33.14 (SD = 9.91, range = 18-52). The intensity of attraction is on a scale from 1-5, with higher values implying stronger attraction. Homosexual and heterosexual women did not differ with respect to partner age preference in this study.

Study: Silverthorne ZA, Quinsey VL. Sexual partner age preferences of homosexual and heterosexual men and women. Arch Sex Behav 2000;29(1):67-76.

The graph speaks for itself. Note that the data concerning ratings of individuals aged 15-18 are not reported. Why do you think the authors never reported this data?

Also see additional evidence that sexual interest in underage individuals is much higher in homosexual and bisexual individuals compared to heterosexuals.

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"Why are children used to model clothes for women in their 30s and 40s?"

Why are you calling teenagers children?
Why are you claiming that minidresses that barely cover the behind are marketed to women in the 30's and 40's when most of the women who wear such clothes are in their teens and 20's?
Quote:

"Note that the data concerning ratings of individuals aged 15-18 are not reported. Why do you think the authors never reported this data?"

The data concerning ratings of individuals aged 15-18 is reported in the category "late teens", which covers roughly 16-19, almost the exact same age range as 15-18.

"Underage" is an artificial construct of law, not nature. Depending on which country you're in, a 13-year-old may be of legal age or a 19-year-old may be underage.

Female fertility and fecundity peak in the early to mid 20's; male virility and libido peak in the late teens; therefore it makes perfect sense for heterosexual men to prefer women their early to mid 20's and for homosexual men to prefer men in their late teens, though according to this study, homosexual men like men in their early to mid 20's almost as much. What's wrong with that?
:blank:

Whipped honey: Teenagers are considered children for a variety of purposes, especially if they are in their mid- or early-teens. If I replace “children” with “teenagers,” the question will still remain. It is not just mini-dresses; the designers prefer to use teenage girls to model other types of clothes also. And the video addresses a girl being made to model a mother with kids.

You need to stop disputing the studies that I cite unless you have read them. The graph you see above does not appear in the study. I made it from their data, and to do so I had to look at it, and although this was years ago, I don’t think I misread the data. They did not report the data on the mid-teen stimuli even though they criticized other studies for not using stimuli in this range, and it should be obvious why.

If I replace “underage” with “children” or “individuals less that age 16,” the point will remain regardless of what the age of consent is. I am not addressing a wrong vs. right issue here but why fashion designers prefer teenage girl models to young adults.

It doesn’t make “any sense” for homosexual men to be strongly attracted to boys in their late teens, and you would know this if the authors had presented the full data; just click on the link in my reply to Rob. Hopefully, you will realize that the sexual preferences of homosexuals are not an issue of what makes sense and what doesn’t. Homosexuals interested in boys typically want to sodomize them, not be sodomized by them, and hence your point about the age at which male virility peaks is not relevant.

Fashion Designers' So-Called "Pedophilia"
Quote:

"Teenagers are considered children for a variety of purposes, especially if they are in their mid- or early-teens."

Natural childhood ends with the completion of puberty, which is almost always by age 15 at the latest - no matter where the law draws any arbitrary line.
Quote:

"If I replace “children” with “teenagers,” the question will still remain."

Then why don't you replace "children" with "teenagers"? Be honest. The fashion designers are not using 11-year-old children to model clothes for grown women.
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"It is not just mini-dresses; the designers prefer to use teenage girls to model other types of clothes also."[/i]

So?
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"And the video addresses a girl being made to model a mother with kids."

A very rare instance of an 18-year-old model used to portray a mother is hardly an indicator of a trend. Most advertising that portrays mothers uses models over 25.
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"You need to stop disputing the studies that I cite unless you have read them."

You posted that graph and the link to "additional evidence", so it was reasonable for me to conclude that the "additional evidence" was in ADDITION to that same study, rather than including further details about that same study. As you presented that post, it was reasonable for me to conclude that the term "late teens" meant the upper half of the teen years, which would include 16-19.
Quote:

"They did not report the data on the mid-teen stimuli even though they criticized other studies for not using stimuli in this range, and it should be obvious why."

There WAS no data on "the mid-teen stimuli" because there WAS no "mid-teen stimuli". The stimuli were all 18 to 60. You can ask why they didn't include mid-teen stimuli for BOTH homosexual and heterosexual men, but it is dishonest to imply that they hid some of the data they found.
Quote:

"If I replace “underage” with “children” or “individuals less that age 16,” the point will remain regardless of what the age of consent is."

No, if you replace "underage" with "children" or "individuals less than age 16", the point will not remain because most (not all) models who are used to model adult women's clothing are over 16.
Quote:

"It doesn’t make “any sense” for homosexual men to be strongly attracted to boys in their late teens, and you would know this if the authors had presented the full data; just click on the link in my reply to Rob. Hopefully, you will realize that the sexual preferences of homosexuals are not an issue of what makes sense and what doesn’t. Homosexuals interested in boys typically want to sodomize them, not be sodomized by them, and hence your point about the age at which male virility peaks is not relevant."

It makes perfect sense for homosexuals who are interested in both sodomizing and being sodomized by young MEN to prefer young MEN at the peak of their virility in their late teens. Homosexuals who prefer only to sodomize and not be sodomized by BOYS in their prepubescence or early adolescence have no reason to care about how virile those BOYS are and that is a different issue. BTW I read the entire linked page.

All your graph proves is that the peak years of male sex appeal are slightly younger than the peak years of female sex appeal because the peak years of male virility/testosterone are slightly younger than the peak years of female fertility/fecundity. The pattern is exactly the same for both homosexual and heterosexual men: the more virile/nubile the stilumi age range, the higher the attraction.

Females generally lose interest in adolescent males when the females are in their 20's at the peak of their fertility/fecundity because of the evolutionary imperative to find a male who can provide resources for his offspring, and in our modern economy, adolescent males are generally useless for providing resources. Men's sense of attraction is in no way dependent on the sexual object's ability to provide resources; therefore homosexual men have no reason not to be attracted to late adolescent MEN.

I do not dispute that the rate of pedophilia is higher among homosexual men than among heterosexual men, but that hardly proves that pedophilia is even close to normal among homosexual men. I don't see what on Earth attraction to over-15 ADULTS has to do with pedophilia.

Self-reporting on sexual matters is notoriously unreliable even with total anonymity, because people lie to themselves about their sexuality, especially when it comes to sexual desires that are considered socially unacceptable, so it is highly likely that the rates of homosexualiy and bisexuality are higher than self-reporting suggests, which means homosexuals are not as overrepresented among pedophiles as the official numbers suggest.
:zip:

But wasn't the best time to pose for Playboy age 18? And women have most libido at age 38-40, 35-40 or something and men want the most sex at 18-20?

my god i've never seen so much misinformation in one place! i am a gay man and i can tell you how it is. first off pederasts/pedophiles are NOT gay men. they are pseudo-straight men. and as such yes they prefer younger men as they simulate women more, with their gracile bone structure. real gay men, feminine gay men, prefer about mid-20s. this makes sense, since feminine gay men have female brains most experts believe, and females would likely also prefer this age as its right in the middle of a man's fertile period. second yes, adulthood starts at the start of puberty and the end of puberty is about 14 for women and 16 for men. those of you calling teens and eraly twenty something women 'children' and women in their 40s and 50s 'women' have it completely backward. the DEFINITION of a woman is a human female capable of bearing offspring. that puts the age at 12 to 42 or so. and for men its a similar definition, which puts manhood at 13 (first ejaculation) to 50 (avg onset of erectile dysfunction). third. if they were just studying gay and str8 men's reactions to people's faces, i'm very very very very surprised that EVERYONE doesn't prefer the late teens faces as i believe they clearly are just objectively more attractive. how can they not be, with the full lips, small mouth to nose gap (a big one makes u look like an ape), a slim face, perfectly shaped nose, etc ? however if the images were of full body shots i'm almost sure the str8 men would still prefer mid teens while the gay men would jump to late 20s or early 30s. if both face and body were shown i'm sure mid 20s would be where the avg gay man came. perfect union of handsome face and masculine body. anyway, please don't confuse pedophiles with gay men. they are in YOUR camp (i.e. they're str8 men. thats why they like femininity. they like young teenage feminine acting drag doing men). this study probably didn't weed them out. also remember that men's faces age and weather and grow older much faster than women's. men's skin is not as good at holding up at womens. i believe thats why god/nature/whatever gave men beards, to counterbalance this. to give natural sunscreen and also cover up the fast progressing ugliness that comes with age. so that might also be a factor. but i believe male looks/feccundity/libido all peak in the late teens and this is WHY nature/god/evolution gave them better faces; as their bodies are lacking at that age since they have had less years of exposure to testosterone and thus look less masculine in bone structure, nature/god made up for this gap by giving them VERY handsome faces. with women, fertility/fecundity/libido/sexiness peaks around 15/16/17 i.m.o just going from what i've heard EVERY single str8 man EVER say to me, if they've happened to expressed an opinion to me. the slimmer bone structure at that age is something that works FOR them, not against them, as it does with men. anyway, this is my two cents.

A big problem I think is that some major companies make their items in collaboration with Chinese manufactures, but under the name of the company, so you can't really be sure what your robes or other sensitive things like that are made ok.

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