You are here

The aesthetics of the eyebrows

This entry addresses the aesthetics of the eyebrows in women; note the emphasis on a feminine appearance.  The ideal shape that the author talks about in the introduction is applicable to white women and oval faces.

Aesthetic Considerations in the Elevation of the Eyebrow

James C. Alex
M.D., F.A.C.S.
Facial Plast Surg 2004; 20: 193-198
DOI: 10.1055/s-2004-861774

ABSTRACT

In an increasingly diverse and multicultural society, it becomes increasing imperative to understand the aesthetics and proper analysis of the face, particularly as it applies to forehead lifting and elevation of the eyebrow. Most articles published to date have emphasized the surgical anatomy and/or surgical technique of forehead lifting and addressed the question of brow aesthetics in a uniform, generalized fashion. In addition, the emphasis on brow elevation as a means to brow/upper lid rejuvenation can further distract the surgeon from appreciating each person's unique brow aesthetics. This article examines current surgical concepts of brow/upper lid proportion and harmony and compares and contrasts them with cultural notions of the “pleasing brow” as represented by the makeup and fashion industries. There is great variation in what is considered to be a “beautiful brow,” and the facial plastic surgeon must understand the nuanced elements of eyebrow configuration that contribute to the overall balance and harmony of the face.

KEYWORDS: Brow position, periorbital, endoscopic, brow lifting.

SURGICAL NORMS IN BROW POSITION

A review of several textbooks and articles that discuss brow position reveals a consistent consensus as to the proper qualitative relationships of the ideal eyebrow position[1][2][3]; these include (Fig. [1]):

  • The medial extremity of the eyebrow lies in a vertical plane passing through the alar base.
  • The lateral eyebrow ends at an oblique line drawn from the alar base through the lateral canthus.
  • The medial and lateral ends of the eyebrow lie at the same horizontal level.
  • The apex of the eyebrow lies vertically above the lateral limbus of the eye at approximately the junction of the medial two thirds and the lateral third of the eyebrow.
  • The eyebrow arches above the supraorbital rim in women and lies at the rim in men.
  • The male eyebrow tends to be heavier and less arched than the female brow.

Some authors differ from this norm, stating that as the female brow rises laterally, it should peak at the lateral canthus and not at the lateral limbus (Fig. [1B]).[4] It should be noted, however, that the preceding criteria of the idealized brow are based on an idealized concept of facial shape-the oval-and do not account for different facial types among individuals.

The “ideal” brow position.

Figure 1 (A) The “ideal” brow position. The high point of the brow is at the lateral limbus of the eye. (B) An attractive and balanced brow with the high point of the brow at the lateral canthus of the eye.

Another approach has been to quantify the proper eyebrow position.[5][6] McKinney et al[5] measured the brow height in 50 women 14 to 32 years of age. The average distance from the top of the brow to the midpupil was 2.5 cm (range of 2.3-2.9 cm); and from the top of the brow to the anterior hairline was 4.8 cm (range of 4.0-6.2 cm). Other measurements such as medial canthus to top of brow, lateral canthus to top of brow, and lid margin to top of brow have also been “determined.”[6][7] The difficulty with these studies is that these generalized “normative” measurement values do not instruct the surgeon as to what are the best values to uniquely enhance a particular individual's attractiveness. Also, by ignoring the aesthetic relationship between brow shape and position and the face, all facial forms are unconsciously reduced into one type. The emphasis on individualized facial analysis with a goal to balance and harmonize each person's distinctive facial characteristics is lost.

In reality, the ideal shape, length, and position of the brow must be appropriately altered to fit different shapes of faces. For instance, in round faces the brow is kept shorter and placed higher, as a longer lateral third would produce a moon-shaped face.[8]

The observant facial plastic surgeon need only look at the work of makeup artists to realize that the beautiful eyebrows they create can vary greatly from these “norms.” When surgically creating the ideal eyebrow position, the surgeon should look beyond the generalized numbers and relationships to the individual characteristics of the brow and the facial shape that truly determine the most aesthetic brow appearance for a given person.

MAKEUP ARTISTS AND CHARACTERISTICS OF THE FACE AND IDEAL BROW

The use of makeup has been a part of every civilization beginning with the Egyptians and Greeks.[9] Proper shaping of the eyebrow enhances not only the intrinsic beauty and power of the brow but also that of the eyes and face. As world-famous makeup artist Kevyn Aucoin wrote,[10] “To me, the eyebrows are the most important feature of the face. They're the most expressive feature, as well as the one that can be changed most drastically…”

With makeup, aesthetic changes are made to the brow to balance and harmonize the face. The facial plastic surgeon can produce similar nuanced cosmetic changes with surgery. Discrete elevation of the medial, central, and/or lateral portions of the brow can be achieved with the variety of advanced brow and forehead lifting techniques. Thus, it is critical when balancing the face to know not only whether the brow should be elevated but also which parts of the brow elevated and why.

One of the major differences between the idealized brow of surgical texts and that of makeup artists is that the former is based on the ideal face-the oval-whereas the latter is individually matched to a person's unique facial shape. For instance, Stephanie Seymor, Jennifer Love Hewitt, and Claudia Schiffer all have long faces and their eyebrow shape is flat and position relatively low. This shape makes the face appear more oval, drawing the eye from side to side rather than up and down the face.

As is seen with clothing and art, horizontal lines make long objects appear more round and vertical lines create the illusion of length in round objects.

In attempting to “ovalize” the face, a basic progression is followed[8]: (1) using the eye color and complexion, determine the individual's natural color; (2) determine the individual's facial shape; (3) ovalize the face with shading (dark colors deepen an area and light colors bring it forward); and (4) treat individual features-eyes, lips, and eyebrows-to effect. The eyebrows are a critical component both intrinsically and in helping to ovalize the face.

There are five basic brow shapes (Fig. [2]): (1) curved, (2) sharp angled, (3) soft angled, (4) rounded, and (5) flat. For those brow shapes with an arch, further differentiation into low, medium, and high arch can be made. These eight primary brow characteristics can be manipulated to create the best balance for a given face shape.

The five basic eyebrow shapes.

Figure 2 The five basic eyebrow shapes.

The round brow shape softens and adds a gentle roundness to the face, toning down sharp, angulated features such as a pointed chin. The high, sharp peak of the sharp angulated brow adds energy and youth to the face. It can function to slim a round or diamond-shaped face, and it can complement and balance other strong facial features such as a square jaw or prominent cheek bones. The soft angled brow creates a similar effect while maintaining a softer, more feminine appearance. The curved brow projects a feeling of energy, confidence, and professionalism and works particularly well on a square or oval face. As mentioned earlier, the flat brow is perfect for individuals with a long face, creating a shorter, more ovalized look.

The importance of the brow in facial balancing is underscored by Nancy Parker, who notes, “the improper selection of brow shape can be disastrous. For example an angulated, highly arched brow can help make a round face appear more oval, but a round brow can turn that same face into a beach ball.”

Following are common recommendations for brow shape and position based on facial shape.[8][10]

The Oval Face Shape

The Oval Face Shape

  • This is the ideal facial shape. It is intrinsically balanced. The brow plays no significant role in making the face appear “more oval.”
  • Selection can be guided by personal taste.
  • Grace Kelly, Ashley Judd, Jewel.

The Round Face Shape

The Round Face Shape

  • To make a round face appear oval, one should apply lines that go up the face. This draws the eye more up and down and stops it from going side to side.
  • A high arched brow accomplishes this.
  • The peak is best moved out toward the end of the brow. This lets the lines of the brow go up and down as much as possible. The tail should therefore be short.
  • Uma Thurman, Cameron Diaz, Vanessa Williams.

The Heart Face Shape

The Heart Face Shape

  • A rounded shape helps by adding curves to soften the face and emphasizes the lovely heart shape.
  • Madonna, Mariah Carey, Julia Roberts

The Long Face Shape

The Long Face Shape

  • To make a long face appear oval, one should apply horizontal lines to the face. This draws the eye from side to side and stops it from going up and down.
  • A flat brow stops the eye from going up the face.
  • Stephanie Seymor, Jennifer Love Hewitt, Claudia Schiffer.

The Square Face Shape

The Square Face Shape

  • Strong angled eyebrows balance a strong jaw line.
  • The peak of the brow is most effective when directly above the square of the jaw.
  • Demi Moore, Paulina Porizkova.

The Diamond Face Shape

Either:

The Diamond Face Shape

  • A rounded brow softens an angular face or
  • A peaked brow helps to narrow the width of the typical diamond wide face.
  • Sophia Loren, Linda Evangelista.

CONSIDERATIONS IN PERIORBITAL AESTHETICS

In addition to the eyebrow, there are three components of the periorbital area that are typically tailored through the use of eye makeup-the eyelashes, the palpebral portions of the eyelid, and the area between the upper lid crease and the eyebrow.[9][10][11] The proper application of makeup in these areas can often balance such common problems as droopy, bulging, narrow, wide, deep-set, and close-set eyes. Eyeliner is used to dramatize the gentle medial to lateral upward tilt of the classic almond-shaped eye. Eye shadow is often blended differentially to enhance certain areas of the upper lid.

According to Aucoin, “The main principle is that deep colors deepen or hollow an area and light colors bring it forward… to create the illusion of larger, deeper set eyes, I will often blend a slightly darker color into the crease of the eyes.” This technique also accentuates the beautiful transverse curve of the eye.

IMPLICATIONS FOR THE FACIAL PLASTIC SURGEON

For the facial plastic surgeon who performs eyebrow lifting procedures, the interplay between the shape of the face, the eye, and the brow must be clearly understood. The impact of raising the whole eyebrow versus the medial, middle, or lateral portion of the brow must be discussed with the patient to determine what they feel is most attractive. Often this requires educating patients who can appreciate when “things look off” but do not understand the discrete facial dynamics that create a given appearance.

The goals of such discussions are twofold: first, to determine with the patient what changes truly enhance the beauty of the face; and second, to eliminate the gap between expectation and outcome. There is nothing more frustrating to patient and surgeon alike than when a brow lift procedure was a technical success but the patient believes the new brow appearance does not match her face.

The use of digital imaging and morphing programs, such as Alterimage (Seattle Software Design, Seattle, WA), is an excellent way to avoid this problem. Simulated postoperative appearances can be compared and contrasted with preoperative views, significantly narrowing, if not eliminating, the gap between expectation and outcome.

For women who desire their eye to look bigger, such computer programs are also an excellent way to demonstrate the impact of brow shape and position on how large the eye appears. Often the surgeon believes that lifting the brow “opens the eye” and that opening the eye makes it look larger. However, look at Figure [3]. Which oval looks larger, a or b? Cover image b and then quickly alternate between the two images. What you will observe is what artists have known for years. In image a, the line appears thicker and the oval larger than in image b because the oval and line are closer to one another.[12] This visual illusion is also at work when casually observing the periorbital region. Under certain circumstances, lifting the eyebrow can actually give the illusion of creating a smaller eye. Other factors influencing the final appearance of eye size besides eyebrow height include the patient's coloring, the length and width of the brow, and how deep set the eyes are. Finally, the surgeon should have a clear understanding of how the patient likes to wear makeup, as makeup can drastically alter perceived visual relationships.

Which oval appears larger?

Figure 3 A test: Which oval appears larger?

THE TECHNIQUE OF ENDOSCOPIC BROW LIFTING

The details of endoscopic brow lifting have been the topic of numerous papers,[13][14][15][16] and an excellent review of the anatomy and basic technique follows in the article by Drs. Quatela and Choe. However, the technique of brow fixation is a point worthy of further discussion and in particular the technique of differential brow fixation. Typically, after endoscopic dissection and elevation of the forehead and brow, surgeons will advance secure the flap using fixation points fairly close to or within the anterior hairline incisions. The advantage of this is that an even distribution of pull is created across the forehead, creating a smooth appearance and uniform brow elevation. However, if a differential brow elevation is indicated, suspension sutures can be endoscopically passed through periosteum and galea within 2 to 3 cm of the brow to elevate specifically either the medial, middle, or lateral aspects of the brow. The sutures are then passed superiorly to be fixated in a traditional manner (bone tunnel, permanent or absorbable screws, or the temporalis fascia).[13][14][15][16] This technique can create bunching of tissue above the suture bites, and additional fixation near the anterior hairline incisions may be required to smooth out the forehead. Although it is more technically challenging, the creation of specific segmental changes in brow shape is consistently achieved with this suturing approach.

CONCLUSION

When counseling patients regarding forehead and brow lifting, the surgeon must understand the goal of surgery in terms of balance and harmonizing the face, not just elevating the brow. The shape of the face and how a patient uses makeup must be considered by both surgeon and patient before determining the best shape and position of each portion of the brow. Should segmental brow lifting be required, targeted suturing techniques can produce the desired nuanced effect.

REFERENCES

  1. Rafaty FM, Brennan HG. Current concepts in browpexy. Arch Otolaryngol 1983; 109: 152-154
  2. Ellenbogen R. Transcoronal eyebrow lift with concomitant upper blepharoplasty. Plast Reconstr Surg 1983; 71: 490-499
  3. Gunter JP, Antrobus SD. Aesthetic analysis of the eyebrows. Plast Reconstr Surg 1997; 99(7): 1808-1816
  4. Miller PJ, Wang TD, Cook TA. Rejuvenation of the aging forehead and brow. Facial Plast Surg 1996; 12: 147-155
  5. McKinney P, Mossie RD, Zukowski ML. Criteria for the forehead lift. Aesthetic Plast Surg 1991; 15(2): 141-147
  6. Farkas LG. Anthropometry of the Head and Face. 2nd ed. Raven Press New York: 1994
  7. Larabee WF, Makielski KH, Henderson JL. Surgical Anatomy of the Face. 2nd ed. Lippincott Williams & Wilkins New York: 2003
  8. Jewel DL. Making Up by Rex. Clarkson Potter New York: 1986
  9. Rees TD. Aesthetic Plastic Surgery. WB Saunders Philadelphia: 1980
  10. Aucoin K. The Art of Makeup. Harper Collins New York: 1994
  11. Parker N, Kalish N. Beautiful Brows: The Ultimate Guide to Styling, Shaping and Maintaining Your Eyebrows. Three Rivers Press New York: 2000
  12. Parramon JM. How to Draw Heads and Portraits. Watson-Guptill Publications New York: 1990
  13. Guyuron B, Michelow BJ. Refinements in endoscopic forehead rejuvenation. Plast Reconst Surg 1997; 100: 154-160
  14. Romo T, Jacono AA, Sclafani AP. Endoscopic forehead lifting and contouring. Facial Plast Surg 2001; 17: 3-10
  15. Ramirez OM. Endoscopic techniques in facial rejuvenation: an overview. Part I. Aesthetic Plast Surg 1994; 20: 141-147
  16. Rounds MF, Cheney ML, Quatela VC. Endoscopic facial surgery. Facial Plast Surg 1998; 14: 217-226

Comments

Kristin: Your comment does not belong to this entry, and it doesn’t make much sense.

which face shape do you consider to be the most beautiful? or feminine? or both?

WOah, whoever hosts this site..thank you for all the pictures and info!
I'm not actually interested in feminine beauty at all, however I got to this site googling for resources on human anatomy.
And I must say, as a drawing student myself I find this website quite useful.

In terms of facial attractiveness, the oval shape face is absolutly NOT the most 'ideal', since it would imply a narrowing forhead, i.e. the broadest point of the face would be situated at the mid-face point and then narrowing at the forhead, which is not the ideal shape as it is less-attractive than a broad forhead, where the widest or equal-widest point of the face is situated at the forhead.

This applies also to men, e.g. Burak Ozcivit

Hi there,
In answer to kristen higgins.. U know why everyone makes fun of Americans because we are really poor at general knowledge.. U don't even know that people from Middle east and north Africa are infact white/caucasian... Goodness gracious.. Blondes are not the only white people on earth.. How could u just make up your own category which goes against facts.. Have u ever traveled to the middle east and parts of north africa or Russia.. They are caucasian even if they have no albino skin and hair like u suggest....How dumb.....Europians are not the only caucasian /white......There are people even in latin america who are racially caucasian.. Ethnicity is different from race and hence cannot categorize physical appearances ...Ethnicity only categorizes language and culture..People from middle east some parts of latin america, north africa and parts of Asia are all acaucasian...Remember than from now onwards......

How can I trust any of this to be accurate when the author clearly does not know how to identify face shapes properly? Please explain to me how Uma Thurman is categorized as having a round face shape?

Uma Thurman:

Uber Uma! Pictures, Images and Photos

I also wonder how the author managed to categorize "Jewel" aka Jewel Kilcher as having the perfect and balanced oval face shape. See for yourself:

Jewel Kilcher:

Jewel Kilcher Pictures, Images and Photos

Catherin Zeta Jones is a better example of a round face:

colorize catherine zeta jones Pictures, Images and Photos

Catherine Zeat Jones 1 Pictures, Images and Photos

Uma Thurman has an oblong face shape, it is too long to be round. A round face is generally a short face. It is wide, usually with low set and rounded cheeks. The chin is rounded in some cases blends in with the face and is not very prominent. The jaw is also generally wide and rounded. In some cases the jaw is as wide as the temples, however most of the time the jaw is slightly narrower than the temples. A round face is usually defined to be as wide as it is long. Although this may be the case with some women, the majority of round faced women lean towards a more oval-round faced look where the face is rounded, but not literally a circle. The hairline is also round.

Charlize Theron is a good example of this. Her face can be classified as oval, but really it is a round face:

Charlize Theron Pictures, Images and Photos

Jewel is not a good example of an oval face. She has more of a combination face type leaning towards a square-heart combo. Her jaw is squared and her chin is very prominent and pointy making it lean towards a heart shape.

An oval face is longer than it is wide. The hairline and jaw are rounded and the chin is more prominent. The face is less wide than the round face type. The temples and jaw are supposed to be the same width, however generally the jaw is slighly narrower. Oval faces usually go hand-in-hand with high cheekbones, while round faces generally display low cheekbones. However, in some cases it is visa versa. An oval face is known for symmetry and balance and is considered the ideal face type, although many argue that the oval face shape does not exist only in combination with other face types. Megan Fox is a good example of an oval face shape:

megan fox Pictures, Images and Photos

megan fox Pictures, Images and Photos

never knew this things are possible, its a simply WOW

Grace Kelly Pictures, Images and Photos

Grace Kelly does not have an oval face shape. It is a squared off face. She leans towards a diamond face shape actually, although she seems to have a combination of many different faces shapes. Again, I believe Megan Fox comes extremely close to an oval face shape, the ideal face shape. Compare to Grace Kelly's above:

Megan Pictures, Images and Photos

You seem to have a hard time understanding what a round face looks like. I have noticed that before.

Generally, round faces are not characteristic for Northern/Western Europeans, or people of that descent. Round face types are most commonly found in Eastern Europeans of slavic type, and in many Asians, of course.

Charlize has an oval face shape. Her face is not long, that's true, but nevertheless her face goes into the oval category.

These are examples of round faces and all are Eastern European and very typical:

Photobucket

Here is Charlize in comparison;

Photobucket

By "you" I was referring to godis, of course.

More round faces;

Grace has an oval face with square elements to it, too;

This Swedish girl has a rather similar face shape, I think. Some people have mixed face shape;

Diamond shape;

Long face shape;

Square/roundish face shape;

Emily, I disagree. You picked biased photos to prove your point.

A) Charlize Theron is already aging in those photos. Face shape can change with age and it depends on the individual how it changes. Some people's round faces can become rounder and more robust, and this is common sense because with age comes mascunilization. However, some people's faces can lose a generous amount of fat and seem more elongated when in fact they are not.

B) This is not an oval face regardless of what you think. A round face does not have to be round as a basketball to be considered round.

Photobucket

Photobucket

Photobucket

Photobucket

Photobucket

Photobucket

Charlize Theron clearly has a round face. Most round faces are not as extreme as you would like to define them to be. According to your definition my face would be considered oval, and the reason I know my face is not oval is because I have to balance it out with hairstyles. A more balanced and oval face would not need any specific hairstyle to appear balanced and oval. In the photos above Charlize has balanced her face out with certain hairstyles. I have a face shape close to Drew Barrymore's, which appears to be even less round than Charlize's. I have to balance it nonetheless:

Aurora Pictures, Images and Photos

drew barrymore Pictures, Images and Photos

Drew also needs to balance her fact out with her hairstyles. Someone with a true oval face like Megan Fox clearly does not need to. Her hair can lay flat down her face and it will still look oval:

Megan Fox Pictures, Images and Photos

compare to charlize:

Charlize Theron 30 Pictures, Images and Photos

And Emily I just LOVE how you always try to associate any undesirable feature to Eastern Europeans. What I noticed about Eastern Europeans in the U.S. is how they differ from their parents in face shape. Their faces are more elongated. I believe this to be the result of diet. My face is significantly longer than my mother's face. My mother has a really short round face, but it looks good because it is feminine. All the photos you post up of round faces are on the mascunilized side, so naturally they will look bad. Stop picking on Eastern European girls. I already admitted that I agree Northern European women seem to be more masculine and on average more attractive. Although it is a close call between them and Southern European women. I do believe South Eastern European women are the least attractive out of the European women. This doesn't mean that can't change over time or that every woman from that area will automatically be unattractive. Besides I am proud of being Eastern European. I have a curvy body and am athletic at the same time not to mention naturally flexible, something I don't see often among Northern European women. I see Eastern European women and men do excel at sports more than any other European country. So I guess sometimes you can't have it all.

Sorry I meant Northern European women seem to be more feminine* and attractive on average.

One of the photos is down so here is the comparison again:

Charlize Theron 30 Pictures, Images and Photos

Megan Fox Pictures, Images and Photos

compare also to drew barrymore who also has a round face, along with Marilyn Monroe as well:

People's face shape also changes when they smile. My face looks closer to oval like Drew's when she smiles, but it is still ROUND!

Drew Barrymore 14 Pictures, Images and Photos

Marilyn Monroe, round face:

marilyn monroe Pictures, Images and Photos

What I find interesting is how you find Grace Kelly to be perfection when in truth her face is just as robust as many Eastern European faces:

grace kelly Pictures, Images and Photos

grace kelly Pictures, Images and Photos

Grace Kelly Pictures, Images and Photos

I do agree that Grace Kelly is gorgeous, but she doesn't have the perfect oval face. Most people don't.

marylin monroe had a round face and she was 'the beauty' and yes just to let everyone know. I think that eastern european women and women of that descent wherever in the world are true women and a paragon of feminine beauty. They rae considered the most feminine beauties in the world. I htink most people consider softness in features as the true beauty of women and yes in that I would want to include the whole world just not a few north european women. The world over softness in features and face shape is considered beauty especially for women. i know that men are supposed to have more masculine face cuts and jaw lines......

I'm going to have to go with Emily on this one, Grace Kelly has a perfectly oval face, as does Charlize. No offense to anyone who disagrees. If one were a hairdresser, lets say, and had to do the "eyeball" assessment on facial shapes, one thing that is known by those professionals is that an oval face can generally carry off any style because of it's perfect proportions and symmetry. Charlize doesn't have a long oval face, but it is unmistakedly oval, and Grace kelley is known for it. Oval faces are described as "beautiful", or "elegant", whereas rounder, or diamond face shapes are more described as "cute" (that also depends on other factors). Square shaped faces tend to be described as "strong", "striking", etc.

Accusing Emily of picking on Eastern Europeans is hardly fair, when you've said that Nordic women have "piggish" noses, and did everything you could to try to present them in a negative light. She (Emily) showed you the variance of Nordic facial types, but one thing that must be pointed out, is that the finer the bone structure, the less dramaticly a strong jawline, or robust cheekbones would appear. Refined facial features are a hallmark of Northern European beauty. Thinking that Grace Kelly has robust features and looks Eastern European is absurd. And even if the examples of Nordic women you argue are "masculine", the fine bone structure nontheless makes them more attractive on average.

That being said, I too can see that there is beauty to be found in the faces of many Eastern Europeans. Yes, most of us realize that they excell in sports such as gymnastics, ballet (which is not a sport, but an example of alleged "flexability"), among others. North Europeans have their strong points in athletics as well.

I am of North European descent, complete with the "piggish" nose, pig skin, etc. Not the Halstatt, or Osterdal type, but a close "sub type". But I do see the beauty of all ethnicities, races, and so on. I just think that it's ok to say that on average, the Nordic type is by and large the most attracive, and feminine.

It seems like the thing to do is to pick on Emily, and Erik, constantly, when it just seems so counterproductive. If people are unhappy with what they read here, why do they insist on coming back? I doubt you're going to change their minds, as much as I doubt that they will change yours.

FYI: though this is usually said to be common knowledge, if you are unable to decide on you facial shape, then do the following. Pull all your hair back, look in a mirror and with a bar of soap, "trace" your facial shape. Step back, and Vioia! There's your facial shape. Most people do have a combination of facial shapes, but that crude assessment usually gives one a general idea.

Barbella:

I am aware of the pull your hair back and trace your face trick to determining face shape. I've done it before and my face does not come out a circle. It comes out an oval, and the reason is because almost no one's face is really a circle. That doesn't mean it is not round. It's not just the length of the face that determines whether it is round or oval, it is the length of the face in relation to the width of the face. The wider the face and shorter the length, the more it leans towards a round face. For a face to be fully balanced and considered an oval, the length of the face has to be at least one and a half times the width. Anything under that measurement is considered a round face, period. Only then is the face perfectly balanced when those measurements add up.

I can see how you believe Charlize Theron to have an oval shape. However, I don't believe her porportions are truly those of an oval, and although close, they don't cut it. Most round faces are close to oval faces, but they don't cut it. In many photos she is smiling, changing the shape of her face. Also, many times photos distort features. My face appears more elongated in photos than it does in reality. I don't understand why this happens, but it does. I wouldn't be surprised if it happens to celebrities as well. After all most people will tell you that celebrities look very different in reality than they do on our tv screens and in magazines. Even camera's during events can distort a celebrity's feautures because in Hollywood everything is designed to make everything seem more attractive.

I believe I have every right to call Emily out. Yes, I believe I called Nordic noses "piggish" and Nordic skin colors washed out. I have pointed out some very obvious flaws in a rude,undiplomatic, and plain insulting manner. However, they are good descriptions and I have not necessarily degraded any persons with my descriptions. I can tell you right now that many Romanians have what they call an "eagle" nose. Features are often described in relation to animals, the pig nose was the best way to describe a common Scandinavian nose. Although anyone can tell by the tone of my passage that I was trying to be mean, I don't believe it was a horrible insult. Many people believe pig noses to be cute and describe them that way, as pig noses. On the other hand Emily has not pointed out only the physical flaws of Eastern Europeans but has decided to portray them as cheap low lifes. Often times she relied on stereotypes that were not necessarily true and provided cherry picked photos to support these stereotypes. This created a false perception to any reader because they suggested that a whole ethnic group was a certain way. She labeled everyone in a country or part of the world as a certain way, leaving no room for the possibility that perhaps individuals in that group were not that way. She left no room for a reader to conclude that indeed there are attractive and civilized women in Eastern Europe. I believe that her photos are not accurate representations of any group's average attractiveness and behavior, including those of her beloved Scandinavians. In my opinion although Eastern European women have a higher frequency of round faces, broad faces, hooked noses, etc. than Northern European women, they do not on average have hooked noses and rugged coarse broad faces. Emily also decides to assign any undesirable features to Eastern European women and any desirable ones to Nordic women. It is obvious she is attacking Eastern Europeans when what she claims cannot possibly be so. Round faces are just as common in Nordic countries as in Eastern ones. The photos she constantly displays suggests this as well, although I don't believe those photos are a good representation of her country's attractiveness on average. The point is that even the photos she could find of attractive women from Scandinavia do not have a high frequency of women with oval faces, and instead exhibit women with combination face types, most commonly square and round actually.

I try to be an open minded person. I, like any other human being, have ego problems. However, I do try my best to set aside those personal issues and educate myself about the realities of the world I live in. I have readily admitted on this site, after a time, that Nordic women are more feminine and attractive on average. I don't like this, I am not Nordic. However, I will admit it because the facts are adding up. However, that doesn't mean I won't recognize flaws as well. I believe it is important to recognize flaws, while Emily obviously doesn't. Educating oneself about flaws will help one determine a solution if possible or at least a way of coping with the flaw. If one cannot identify a problem in the first place a solution will never be a possibility. I have pointed out that Nordic women are often washed out, this is a flaw. I myself actually exhibit this flaw. I have very pale skin, and light eyelashes. If I had more color to my skin and darker eyelashes my attractiveness would actually significantly increase. I have to resort to mascara and sunless tanner to give myself a more colorful look which translates into a healthier more attractive look overall. My point is that Emily has not pointed out one Nordic flaw.

Your post above mentions that Nordic's have fine facial features. First of all, not all Nordics or Western Europeans have fine facial features. It is not uncommon to see Germans,English,French,etc. that do not have fine facial features. Also, you act as if Eastern Europeans do not have fine facial features. I personally do have fine facial features, and I am not Nordic although I half German. The farther up North you go, the more likely you will find Eastern Europeans with fine facial features. Russian,Czech, and Ukranian women for example have fine facial features on average. Besides, it is not like one cannot find fine facial features even beyond Europe. I have two friends straight from Lebanon that have fine facial features. I don't mean borderline fine facial features, I mean they have really small dainty refined features. I understand that truly are in the minority, but it goes to show that fine facial features exist outside of North and Western Europe. Might I add that diet seems to change a family's features over time. I see this firsthand in my family where my own parents have shorter,rounder and more stereotypical Eastern European faces than my sisters and I do. Our face shapes are significantly different than our parents or grandparents. Why is this? Isn't it interesting that our diet is significantly different because we have been raised in a totally different part of the world? However, this isn't just my observation. There are lots of studies that include the measurements of populations head sizes. One study concluded that with better nutrition European's faces, primarily Eastern Europeans faces were changing. The same study showed that increased nutrition in Asian countries was actually causing a face shape shift towards the stereotypical Asian face and head shape which extremely round and short in the back. Therefore, these things are not set in stone and nutrition and diet is changing in many countries.

There have also been cases where anthropolgists have been baffled with a population's head shape change suddenly or over time. There was a case like this in England, where the skull shape of a population had randomly changed. The best explanation was external factors or change of diet most likely due to external factors. In this case a mutation in genes was not responsible for the manipulation of the traditional skull shape.

Last but not least I disagree that Grace Kelly has an oval face. In many photos it appears much too wide. However, this is hardly the reason it significantly deters from a true oval face. Her jaw line is not rounded, and this is an important requirement for an oval face. Also, her cheekbones jut out more than average, and give her a diamond appearance. She may have a combination face type, and her rounded hairline and in certain photos slightly longer face length may make her appear to have a slightly balanced face. However, to most people, it is obvious her face is far from oval.

*Might I add that my two friends from Lebanon are actually sisters. They are not two random unrelated women from Lebanon, and so it is obvious why they share fine facial features in common.

And don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Grace Kelly doesn't have a gorgeous face. Her face is admirable and anyone with that face type is very lucky. I am simply stating that her face is not oval. I don't find this to be a flaw. I believe that an oval face shape can get boring, however a face like Grace Kelly's will always be interesting,striking, and beautiful at the same time. She also has fine facial features, like nice eyes, a small nose, and nice lips. Therefore, she really has the whole package. The only thing she doesn't have is an oval face, and if she did have an oval face she would look like any other girl and would not be the icon she is today. And yes her cheeks jut out but that is a good thing. Sideways prominent cheeks either due to femininity or just genes makes one significantly attractive. Research proves this.

Godis: Please don't take my comment as a personal attack. I have seen a lot of very attractive people from many parts of Europe, including, Romania. But just as you are proud of you heritage, I am proud of mine. The "piggish" nose I possess is one of the most "asked for" noses by plastic surgery patients, so I think that my nose is probably not all that hideous. I can see where there was some definite tension between you and Emily on the Ekatarina thread. I am not here to choose sides. She has however, made some valid points, and to be fair, so have you. As far as the Grace Kelley oval, or not(?) debate, Grace's face is primarily oval, I think, but she does have a stronger jaw, so there for, she may have a more squarish element. As far as facial shapes when smiling, when I smile, I still have an oval face, as the jaw (gonal) region still lies flat, but the muscles move the shape in such a way that one might say that it is heart or diamond shape. The best way to assess face shape is to NOT smile when making that evaluation.

It seems as though one immediately is defensive toward a commentator who takes a sympathetic stance towards Emily. I'm sorry if I've put you on the defensive by agreeing with her about some basic principles here. But my apreement with her does not mean that I don't wish to have intelligent conversations with others here also.

When attempting to post pics earlier, they got a little messed up in the way I formatted. I, too, wanted to show that Northern and North Western Europeans are beautiful, to me. And if that makes me a "bitch" like Emily, than I offer no apologies.

When I am less tired, I will post pics of forties, and fifties "pin-ups" to show what I truly find feminine and beautiful, for the modern ideal of fashion and beauty is appalling. Some will be photos, and some art.

And lastly, I don't believe that I said that Eastern Europeans couldn't have fine, or gracile feature, I'm sure a lot of them do, however, what I was noting was that the FREQUENCY of fine and gracile features will be greater in N. Europe. I did not say they'd be non-existant everywhere else.

As far as admitting flaws of Northern Europeans, as with any population with fair skin, people might want to be careful with the amount of sun exposure they get, as the risk of premature aging and skin cancer increases. And I'm sure it's safe to say that every ethnic group has flaws. Some have more than others, some have less. It's all relative.

Looking at the Charlize pics again, Godis, take a look at the one near the top where her hair is pulled back and she is wearing the purple gown: that is oval, though slightly rounded. Do the same thing with the soap, but on your computer monitor. Oval, but slightly rounder. Grace Kelley has a more prominant, square jaw, but is also more oval than square. I assess people's facial shapes all day long....that doesn't mean that I'm THE expert, but I have a pretty good idea.....love and respect

We'll just agree to disagree on the face shape issue. I of course still think I'm right, but I usually will.

So Barberella, what would you say my face shape is?

If you combined Katherine Heigl and Drew Barrymore's faces you'd get a face close to mine:

Katherine Heigl Pictures, Images and Photos

Photobucket

Photobucket

30 Katherine Heigl Pictures, Images and Photos

katherine heigl Pictures, Images and Photos

But my face is closer to Katherine's. It pretty scary how close though. But there are certain features I share with Drew, can't put my finger on them though. But yeah, my eye color is close to Katherines, except mine have hints of green in them making them hazel, but they are just as dark. And my cheekbones aren't that high, so my jaw and lower face don't look as long as Katherines. My nose is similar at the tip, but the bridge is slightly different. My nose bridge is less robust, ever so slightly thinner.

See, I think Katherine has a round face. So what would you classify her as?

And yes I'm a natural blonde, it has darkened over the years though and I don't care if Emily doesn't believe me on that. I have no biases against pale skinned blondes, I happen to be one of them for God's sake.

Erik:

Would you consider Katherine's face masculine? My face is close to this minus the high cheekbones. I'm still waiting for the response as to whether finger length truly has a relation to hormone levels. I want to know if I am feminine or masculine!

"And Emily I just LOVE how you always try to associate any undesirable feature to Eastern Europeans."

Godis, I just love how you try to apply a typically Eastern European trait (round face) to those who clearly don't have them. :) A round face may not be the ideal, but it is a trademark of the E. Europeans. There are round faces in the West, too, but it isn't typical the way it is in the East. Also, there are pretty girls with round faces, too.

Katherine Heigl, Marilyn Monroe and Charlize Theron all have oval faces.

Megan Fox is approaching a long face, it seems;

One thing to note is that overweight tends to make you appear more round-faced. Marilyn often put on weight. When she was slim her face had a clear oval shape, and that was her true shape.

A bloated Marilyn with hair obscuring her face. Now appearing clearly roundish.

Charlize's face has always been oval. My photos show conclusively that she has an oval face.

Here are more photos of round faces (not all are round but you will get the point)

Eastern European girls;

I also found a Swedish girl with a roundish face:

And another who might be a round face but it's hard to tell from an angle:

Grace Kelly had fine, delicately sculptured facial features and that is what matters. She is not at odds at all with what I have said about the ideal feminine face. She is a little broader than usual, but she is never coarse.

Fine features can be found in round faces, too, as this E. European girl demonstrates.:

"And yes I'm a natural blonde, it has darkened over the years though and I don't care if Emily doesn't believe me on that. I have no biases against pale skinned blondes, I happen to be one of them for God's sake."

A bait, I see. The narcissism needs nourishment..

You were the one saying you bleach your hair, and you said you have a roundish face, a hooked..excuse me..Roman..nose, and hazel eyes, and you also speak very aggressively against blondes, so no, I don't believe you.

You're just another envious brunette/brown-eyed/hooked nosed/round-faced b***h who wants to diss Nordics and try to say you're blonde so we should take you seriously and not see how full of envy you really are. I'm sorry but I cannot stand liars.

You constantly, non-stop, badmouth Nordic girls, especially Scandinavians, since you know they are widely regarded as the most beautiful.

Yet, non one ever speaks of Romanian women and their beauty, now do they? Probably for a reason. Most of them look like hell compared to Nordics. Sorry, if I sound rude but you deserve it.

You are also one of the most egotistical neurotics I have ever seen. You can literally write page after page about yourself, and if you post photos of other women it is only to compare them to yourself.

Erik knows that if he answers you he will get another ten large comments full of boring self-analysis. That's all you are good for, and you still have no clue what a round face is. You try to say you are confused and don't know whether or not you are feminine or not since one of your fingers doesn't have the right size. You're a joke.

The only reason you do this is to make people talk about you and discuss you. You know what? We don't care about your finger size and we don't care about your looks. My god, don't you have friends? Ask them what you look like if you are too blind to see. If you have to ask again and again, one has to conclude that there really is cause for doubts. Answer: No, you are not feminine. Now go away, please. lol

Godis, as I do not want to offend you by saying that Romanians cannot be beautiful, I found these pics for you....

romanian girls 04 Pictures, Images and Photos

romanian girls 03 Pictures, Images and Photos

romanian girls 02 Pictures, Images and Photos

Hope that clarifies....and as mentioned before, one of my all time favorites...........

Photobucket

Photobucket

Hope that covers it.....

By the way, as I just read this thread since last night, after posting the pics I just did, I would have to say that Marilyn is oval faced, I still think Charlize is, Meghan (?) has a long, but oval shape. Emily's pics of Marilyn showed her through various parts of her life, when her weight had a tendency to fluctuate, but the basic shape is oval. Are you asking me if your face is oval in contrast to Katherine Heigl's? I can't say. I'd say her face is pretty much oval. What Emily has said, that you might have glossed over, for whatever reason, is that their probably isn't one "perfect" oval shaped face. There are many other variables. When I said that I assessed face shapes "all day long", I was saying that I'm a hairstylist, and that is a part of my job. That makes me no expert, but it means that I tend to think about it more than the average person, because it's part of my job. Knowing something about anthropology, as I'm sure you've brushed up on it since coming to this site is this: Sweden, parts of Norway, and small parts of the populations of the British Isles have a skull type called Halstatt (sp?), or Osterdal, and that type is the most common in Scandinavia. It is probably safe to say that Emily is of that type, since she is a Swede. It is the "most Nordic" of all the Nordic types, and opinions aside, is the most desirable. I am in no way trying to insult anyone who is non-Nordic. I am half Dutch, half Irish, as my parents are extremely interested in their specific national origin, and has researched this extensively. Too many Americans have lost touch with their European roots, and that is sad. Well, that was a little off topic....I think that Emily has a lot of good information to offer, but I think that the animosity is to the point that no one will listen, which is unfortunate. Back to the question: If your face shape resembles Katherine Heigl's is it oval? I'd say yes.

And I'd also venture to say that Bettie is of N. Eurpean descent, if you notice the nose, face shape, and skin and eye color. Her hair was tinted black. That is not why I say she's beautiful. She is because she is feminine. And I forgot to mention the Drew Barrymore aspect of the face shape. Katherine Heigl+Drew Barrymore= a diamond shape, but that may be way off. There are so many other variables.

Emily, look at the self-esteem section, I posted more pics, one that will blow "booty mans" theory out of his murky waters...lol

You'll know the one I'm referring to....

One more thing Godis: You do seem to be obsessed with the whole finger length thing, why is this? I already mentioned that if you are built like Lara Croft, or a traditional pin-up, than the finger thing shouldn't matter. If this sounds harsh, than I apologize in advance, but you do seem like you are lacking in some self-esteem, and self acceptance. I doubt seriously that consuming phytoestrogens is going to compensate for what you percieve as some "lack of" on your part. I'm guessing your age to be late teens/early twenties, so maybe because you are (presumably) young, you are questioning such things.

The whole "Erik I need you to tell me if I'm masculine or feminine because of my finger length" thing is bordering in hysteria. Who cares? What if he said that it meant that you were masculine in that regard? He has reiterated several times that it's the OVERALL appearance of a person's looks that is a determinate of one's femininity.

No matter how feminine or beautiful someone is, it means nothing if you lack confidence, which it seems you do. If I'm out of line by making these assumptions, then just remember that you were the one who brought these issues about yourself up. On an open forum, where you had to have assumed they'd be discussed, I might add.

I haven't offered any physical descriptions of myself because I'm very confident in my looks and femininity. Of course I have certain traits that deviate from the "ultimate" feminine, but I am extremely feminine and good looking overall. I won't go running to the mirror every time I read something on this blog that may contradict a "feminine" ideal, because I am FEMININE OVERALL. And that's what's important.

Regarding analyzing face shapes, Emily showed you, and I tried to explain. But you said you'd still think you were right no matter what, and if that's the case, than you'll be the only one who does.

I mean no disrespect, but this is a site intended for adults to openly discuss women's looks, and we have the right to agree (or disagree) with one another, with no hard feelings.

More oval face shapes.....

Photobucket

Angelina Jolie Pictures, Images and Photos

Audrey Hepburn Pictures, Images and Photos

Ally Pictures, Images and Photos

Meg Ryan Pictures, Images and Photos

All these women can fall into the oval faced catagory, with slight variations, a "perfect" oval face is rare, some are a longer oval, some more heart shaped, some a little more square, some even a little rounded.....

I'm obsessed with my finger length because it seems to be an indicator of hormone levels, and someone who has high tesosterone levels is more likely to be infertile. It doesn't matter what I look like on the outside, it is important to be feminine overall. Women with high estrogen levels are 30% more fertile than women who don't. I am only 20, but I have a friend who is 24 and trying to concieve. She is having a lot of trouble doing it. I haven't asked her what the problem is because I feel that is somewhat insensitive, but everyone knows she is the one that is having fertility problems and not her husband. So, I guess I've developed this fear because having kids is like one of the most important things in my life for me. I really want to have kids and infertility would be my worst nightmare!

Emily,

I could care less if you don't believe me abou tmy blonde hair. I like to analyze myself because I like to learn about myself.

Also, I'm sorry I don't want to go on with the face shape thing but I still believe that yes, even Marilyn Monroe has a round face, as well as Heigl. This is because the chin is rounded. Let me try to demonstrate. BTW, I think Marilyn Monroe was so much prettier pre-nose job. I mean she looks best with a natural blonde hair color, and her old nose.

Young Marilyn Monroe Pictures, Images and Photos

young marilyn gif Pictures, Images and Photos

Norma Jean Baker Pictures, Images and Photos

The reason I think Marilyn's face leans towards a roundish-oval face, or round face is because her chin is rounded. Many times the rounded chin is what seperates the oval from the round. Rounded chin, therefore round face examples. Look at the way the jaw goes into the chin. In oval faces the curve from the jaw into the chin is more pronounced, and the chin looks more pronounced. In rounder faces the curve is less pronounced and the chin blends into the face easier, except when smiling or talking or when angled a particular way. Many times yes rounded faces appear oval,but there is a slight diff. I guess its a combination shape type thing.:

Photobucket

Photobucket

The reason Marilyn appears to have a more oval face in the photo you posted above is because she has fat underneath her chin elongating it, and making it appear a different shape. When I gain weight in my face, the first place I gain it, is a slight fat underneath my chin. If the rest of my face doesn't catch up, my face will appear more elongated.

Photobucket

Photobucket

Now compare those two to Megan Fox:

Photobucket

Photobucket

As you can see Megan Fox's angle from the jaw to the chin is slightly sharper, and this makes all the difference. Although Megan Fox's face seems oblong many times it is not as you can tell from the photo above. A good example of an oblong face is Liv Tyler:

Photobucket

Photobucket

Marilyn has a more broad round face:

Photobucket

BTW: This is my natural hair color actually. In the summer it gets like 1 or 2 shades lighter into a blonde, but I add highlights to it to get it to a pretty light blonde. So I guess technically I'm not a blonde anymore unless its sunbleached, but I was when I was a kid, in fact it was white blonde up until the age of like 5:

Norma Jean Baker Pictures, Images and Photos

yes, its a very mousy color, hence why I get highlights to make it come alive lol

Audrey Hepburn had more of a square-oval type face:

Audrey Hepburn Pictures, Images and Photos

Audrey Hepburn Pictures, Images and Photos

She also had stunning eyes:

Audrey Hepburn Pictures, Images and Photos

Most people have a combination shape type, and not a straight out face shape. Liv Tyler for example has an oblong shape, but it is combined with an oval shape. Audrey Hepburn's shape was a square combined with an oval shape, similarly Angelina Jolie has a rectangle/oval face shape:

Angelina Jolie Pictures, Images and Photos

Although when she was younger, the fat placement made it appear round/square like:

Angelina Jolie young Pictures, Images and Photos

She was pretty cute! Now she's strong and elegant, although she did go through a freaky time wearing blood vials and kissing her brother and stuff:

Angelina Jolie Pictures, Images and Photos

Roman noses are often hooked or bumpy, yes:

Photobucket

But, my nose is more this type of roman nose:

Photobucket

and like this from the front:

Katherine Heigl Pictures, Images and Photos

I don't like it because as you can see from the side it's sort of jutty, it just juts out. I like it from the front though. I'd much prefer to have a profile like this except slightly less upturned, than the roman nose above:

Nicole Pictures, Images and Photos

My eyes are this color:

Photobucket

When I wear mascara they get darker, to like this color:

Photobucket

It depends, if I'm wearing red or burgundy or something, they appear greener even with makeup on, if I wear black, they can get so dark from far away they appear black, like this:

Photobucket

Sometimes they appear a yellowish honey color. They do what hazel eyes do, they change color constantly and sometimes even depending on the season. Lighter in summer, darker in winter.

I am just stating all this so you can see that I am not being biased whatsoever. I share features in common with Eastern Europeans, Central Europeans, Northern Europeans, you name it, I really do. I'm not jealous of blondes, I am one. I don't have brown eyes, although I wouldn't think myself any less attractive if I did. Dirt green for an eyecolor isn't the most mezmerizing to have. I'm pretty, but I'm not frikkin Elizabeth Taylor. I'm just being honest, so don't accuse me of being jealous.

When I talked about hooked noses godis suddenly lost it and said to me that she wished that someone would punch me in the face and break my nose so that I would get just the kind of nose shape I dislike.

This is the kind of person she is. Someone who could actually wish physical harm upon someone else because that person prefers a straight nose to a hooked one.

She clearly took personal offense, and the reason, I believe, is that she yourself has a hooked nose. She is an envious Romanian who looks nothing like the girls/ethnicity she likes to bash.

Godis obviously cannot understand face shapes.
Using her criteria, the vast majority of stars have round faces - not oval ones - which is ridiculous since it is not even the universally preferred face shape.

A round face must have a distinct broadness to it, and the difference between length and width MUST NEVER be too large. Godis repeatedly includes faces where width and length differences are too large.

Overweight can mask the true form of a face, as can be seen in Marilyn.

The bone structure and skull shape remain the same, though.

Examples;

Aishwarya Rai has a round face. She is older than Charlize Theron. So why doesn't she mysteriosuly develop into an oval face? Because her bone structure would never allow her to become an oval.

Aishwara Rai;

Examples of oval faces;

Marilyn Monroe (Without the puffiness);

Katherine Heigl;

Charlize Theron;

Kate Winslet;

Lana Turner. Here we really might speak of a borderline round face. I don't think she quite cuts it, but it's a close call.

Round face Cameron Diaz;

Round face Zeta Jones;

A round face Myrna Loy;

Examples of round faces;

Romanian girls;

Other Eastern Europeans;

Asian girl;

Indian girls;

Asians. An interesting thing to note is that Asian men are disproportionally round-faced compared to other men.

Godis called round faces "undesirable trait". She is wrong, though. There are many very pretty girls who have round faces. These girls are Ukrainian and Russian;

As you can see there is no need to try to misrepresent oval faced Hollywood stars. Round-faced girls hold their own quite beautifully.

When I claimed round faces were undesirable, I meant photos you posted. They were always robust and extreme round faces. I have a round face, and I hardly would call my face shape undesirable, because its not.

Plus, yes I do wish that you get a hooked nose. You constantly make fun of people with hooked noses like Ekaterina, and I think you deserve one to see what it feels like and to be vulnerable to people just like you. I think that anyone that makes fun of a feature to the extent you make fun of hooked noses deserves to live with that feature. And you act like I wished you harm to the extent you could die or go to the hospital. Many people break their noses, I think you'd live and learn a good lesson too.

Sometimes pain makes us grow. And I wasn't actually serious about that. But if that scenario were to occur, I think it'd be a blessing disguised as a curse because it may make you more sensitive to people that are not born perfect.

"Plus, yes I do wish that you get a hooked nose."

Get help. You are disturbed.

And wait, Ekaterina has fine facial features, despite her nose bump. If you were to break your nose I would hope it would turn extremely big and robust.

Really, I'm the disturbed one? Honey go back and read some of YOUR posts.

"The whole "Erik I need you to tell me if I'm masculine or feminine because of my finger length" thing is bordering in hysteria. Who cares?"

You are right. It is hysteria, and it is coming from a disturbed person, I believe. The incredible thing is that she is constantly offending Erik and posts negative comments about him, some are really attack posts more than anything else.

She apparently cannot stand his view on femininity, and his preferences, so she constantly bashes him here, and yet at the same time she wants his opinion on HER looks, and she wants him to call her feminine even though he hasn't even seen a photo of her, instead asking him to evaluate her on the basis of her being a cross between Drew Barrymore and Katherine Heigl. LOL

Godis;

"I'm obsessed with my finger length"

We know... Do they let you out full-time or do you have to check in for the night?

Barberella;

"I haven't offered any physical descriptions of myself because I'm very confident in my looks and femininity. Of course I have certain traits that deviate from the "ultimate" feminine, but I am extremely feminine and good looking overall. I won't go running to the mirror every time I read something on this blog that may contradict a "feminine" ideal, because I am FEMININE OVERALL. And that's what's important."

This is what a pretty girl sounds like. :)

I'm not saying that one has to have full confidence all the time. However, I do think that if you have to measure your finger in order to find out if you are feminine, and compare photos of movie stars and ask for opinions non-stop for months on an internet site - instead of talking to your family and friends - you have serious issues.

Such a person is most likely also misrepresenting herself, since very feminine and pretty girls very seldom look so desperately for approval on the internet. She gets that kind of feed-back in real life.

I thought I should repost my comment since I forgot to write my name on it.

"The whole "Erik I need you to tell me if I'm masculine or feminine because of my finger length" thing is bordering in hysteria. Who cares?"

You are right. It is hysteria, and it is coming from a disturbed person, I believe. The incredible thing is that she is constantly offending Erik and posts negative comments about him, some are really attack posts more than anything else.

She apparently cannot stand his view on femininity, and his preferences, so she constantly bashes him here, and yet at the same time she wants his opinion on HER looks, and she wants him to call her feminine even though he hasn't even seen a photo of her, instead asking him to evaluate her on the basis of her being a cross between Drew Barrymore and Katherine Heigl. LOL

Godis;

"I'm obsessed with my finger length"

We know... Do they let you out full-time or do you have to check in for the night?

Barberella;

"I haven't offered any physical descriptions of myself because I'm very confident in my looks and femininity. Of course I have certain traits that deviate from the "ultimate" feminine, but I am extremely feminine and good looking overall. I won't go running to the mirror every time I read something on this blog that may contradict a "feminine" ideal, because I am FEMININE OVERALL. And that's what's important."

This is what a pretty girl sounds like. :)

I'm not saying that one has to have full confidence all the time. However, I do think that if you have to measure your finger in order to find out if you are feminine, and compare photos of movie stars and ask for opinions non-stop for months on an internet site - instead of talking to your family and friends - you have serious issues.

Such a person is most likely also misrepresenting herself, since very feminine and pretty girls very seldom look so desperately for approval on the internet. She gets that kind of feed-back in real life.

Godis: the more I read what you describe as oval, I think you are referring to long, oval shaped. As Emily and I have explained, there are many variants of "oval". A "round" face is robust, with a strong jaw and when moving upward, even more prominant cheekbones, hence, a round shape. Drew Barrymore, as an adult, has a short, oval face.

Here is a square:

Photobucket

heart shape....

Photobucket

oval/round...

Photobucket

oval/heart...

Photobucket

round/heart.....

Devon Aoki Pictures, Images and Photos

The woman in the previous post, Angelina, Meg, Nicole, Audrey, and Bettie are also variants. You'll notice that bangs will "shorten" the look of the face, making Audrey's and Bettie's look more heart shaped.

Emily, thank you, I think that you and I must have at least a basic understanding of spatial dimensions and face shape. I agree that round shapes can also be beautiful, as you've shown. I tried to appease godis in explaining to her that "oval" is a very broad description. Thanks so much again for helping me clarify this to her, but I don't know if it will do any good. The examples you used to describe the various face shapes are more accurate than the one's I tried to use. Godis said that she will always believe she's right, but I think anyone reading this post will see that the pics you and I used prove the case. The photo I used of Catherine Zeta Jones looks as it may be photoshopped or perhaps taken after some amount of weight loss, as I agree with you, her face is round for the most part.

I did read that she said "bitch I hope your nose gets broke by a fist" (I was paraphrasing), it seemed apparent even then, that there was some self esteem issues, as she wouldn't have become so incensed unless something there struck a nerve.

I appreciate the honesty you've posted here. I think someone said on another thread, "I'd begun to doubt the fortitude of white's", and I had also begun to have my doubts.

I mean no disrespect to anyone who's taken offense to anything I may have said, but why come here and lie? Why try to soothe the sensitive feelings of those with inferioity complexes? That's not why I come here, and from what I've gathered from the bulk of your posts, it's not the reason you do either. You seem to be a confident young woman who's here for the same reason as me: to discuss the looks of woman on an open forum, one that (for once) focuses on the beauty of Northern Europeans. Though I'm not a Swede, my father, who has visited Stockholm on several occasions, has said that the women are so beautiful, that he considered the notion of moving there, but admitted he'd get nothing done, as he'd be too busy staring at what he describes as "endless beauty".

I'm not a full-blooded Nordic, but as I said elsewhere, very proud to be in the club.

By the way Godis: the picture of K. Heigl, where you literally outline the bottom of her face shows that it is OVAL. I am not going to continue to argue this, as you've already stated that you will always believe you are right. Emily and I have now shown you countless examples, but it seems that because you don't like Emily, and probably don't like me now, you will abandon all logic to show that you are "right", even when it's glaringly obvious that you don't know how to properly assess face shapes.

These are, to me PERFECT faces, they may not all be "oval", a lot of them won't be, or will be variants....Malin Akerman

Photobucket

Photobucket

not to mention that she's extremely feminine, at least as far as I can see...

Photobucket

Veronica Lake....

Veronica Lake Pictures, Images and Photos

Nicole Kidman.....

Nicole Kidman Pictures, Images and Photos

Michelle Pfeiffer.....

Michelle Pfeiffer Pictures, Images and Photos

Elizabeth Taylor....

Cat On a Hot TIn Roof 029 Pictures, Images and Photos

Notice the variance of face shapes, ethnicities, coloring, etc. The concept of beauty of subjective, but I'd be suprised to find anyone who'd doubt these woman are extremely lovely, masculine or not.....

And this one of Malin's one of my favorites, paying homage to the forties pin-up girl, an era where it was still appreciated for a woman to actually look like a WOMAN!!!

Photobucket

Malin with very avant gard make-up, showing off her stunning bone structure....

Photobucket

Emily, on another thread, I had posted a reply to "booty man", who said that Northern Europeans had flat backsides, not sure if you saw it: A Swedish girl....

Photobucket

Not the over-exaggerated "booty", but a nice, shapely, feminine and rounded behind. The kind that most men, including mine find ideal.

Yes Emily,

I'm confused as to whether I am masculine or feminine. Before it all felt good because I seemed to fit the criteria for what is feminine, and femininity equals beauty, and that meant I was beautiful YAY! Yes, in all honesty swear on anything and everything I do have an hourglass figure. I have a round face, or what you would call an oval face LOL I have big round eyes. I have small dainty lips, full bottom lip, normal upper lip. I have low cheekbones and am only 5'31/2. I have small hands and feet. These in all honesty are feminine features. People describe as cute, but never sexy or anything like that. Which I wish they would.

Then:

I took this test for this "experiment" they were doing at school. It was about sexes and how they think differently. I scored 100% on the spatial intelligence test. Females generally score pretty low on this test lol, males score high, but I scored higher than the average male. Then they measured our finger lengths. It turns out my finger lengths mean I have higher testosterone levels. Then it hit me, that overall I am more athletic than other girls and although I am good at girl stuff, I am awesome at guy stuff lol I even have a pretty high sex drive. lol

Anyways, it baffles me. Maybe there is something off about me that I am not noticing. Maybe I really am masculinized. I don't have a masculine face, just a lot like the average girls Erik posts up. I certaintly dont have a masculine body. Plus I'm pretty good at determining things and paying attention to details. I am an artist which is how I ended up on this site. I love to draw, and I was good at drawing ever since I was a kid. So this stuff is important to me! I look feminine, I feel feminine.But on the other hand, everything else points to: you should be a masculinized girl.

It's confusing because one minute you feel good that your type of beauty is being acknowledged, and then maybe you really aren't feminine. It doesn't feel good and you become obsessed. Because I am a perfectionist and although I know I am not perfect, I will do all I can to be the best person I can be inside and out. So yes, I ask Erik for advice. If I turn out to be masculine, then I want to know what I can do to become more feminine. Simple as that. I see nothing wrong with analyzing myself and trying to get feedback. I learn what I can so I can use it to my advantage. It doesn't matter if I don't like what I hear, it'll annoy me and put me in denial for a bit, but then I'll take it and make the best use of any information I obtain. Better to have that knowledge than be ignorant to it. Besides, I really am just extremely confused about myself right now. For so long I really believed I was a feminine person, until I took that test that suggests otherwise. Even though from head to toe, nothing suggests that.

My feminine vs. masculine features are also kind of extreme. So they don't really meet in the middle anywhere. Like when I was a kid, one minute I was playing with barbies and dolls, the next I was playing baseball with the boys. Besides, it all has to do with fertility and health too. Maybe I think I am healthy and fertile, because I am pseudo-feminine, but if I am not I should take the right steps to become more healthy, fertile, and feminine. I am a bit of a drama queen and I do freak out over little things, but if it bothers you ignore it. Similarly, Erik can ignore my questions and comments, and many times he does so there.

Why do I criticize Erik sometimes?

Because I have noticed, that although his site is very helpful and has some very good points, and has convinced me of certain things, like North Americans are on average more feminine and attractive, I find inconsistencies at the same time. Take for example Angelina Jolie:

Young:
Angelina Pictures, Images and Photos

angelina jolie Pictures, Images and Photos

Older:

pure beauty Pictures, Images and Photos

Angelina Jolie is attractive, but I don't know why. I don't think she is all that feminine. She has some boobs, and a few curves, but she is also tall, wide shouldered, and she has extreme facial angles. I don't think Angelina has a real hourglass either, her waist should be more clinched in. Anyways, compare her to a high fashion model Erik lables as looking manly and having robust facial features. Compare to Angelina. Although the model is less attractive than Angelina, it's not because Angelina has a softer face or finer facial features:

Karolina Kurkova Pictures, Images and Photos

Angelina Jolie Pictures, Images and Photos

Similarly, he even put Keeley Hazel into the attractive women's section. However, Keeley Hazel's backside looks no better than any high fashion model's:

Keeley Hazel 15 Pictures, Images and Photos

Photobucket

Photobucket

And just to be fair, since it is obvious in the photo above Keeley Hazel may have some back fat, we will get a VS model who is obviously on the chunky side at this point:

Karolina Kurkova same model as last photo above only chunky:

Photobucket

Erik also insists that Megan Fox has an hourglass shape. He claims photos can be biased. However, I believe his photos of Megan with an hourglass are more biased, because mine include Megan in a swimsuit while none of his do:

Megan Fox Pictures, Images and Photos

Megan Fox 9 Pictures, Images and Photos

I agree the women above are attractive. Erik claims that every woman will have masculine elements. I think the women above are attractive, but nonetheless pretty masculinized. Keeley Hazel's breasts are the result of her big boob genes, not her femininity. Her backside and wide shoulders don't add up in my opinion. I understand feminine women can have masculine features due to genes and not hormone levels, and visa versa. But, I don't buy that with Hazel. I think she is masculinized. I also just feel like even a lot of the "attractive women" section mumbo jumbo doesn't add up either.

Anyways, I'm tired, I'll write more tomorrow...

Oh and Emily, I don't spend that much time posting. I post in between breaks when I am doing homework or something online. It takes me like 2 minutes to type my thoughts out and like 5 minutes to put the photos together, tops if there are a lot. You act like I spend my life on here when I don't. I dont proofread my stuff. I just type it out and leave.

Angelina is attracive because she has facial symmetry, angular or not. The media also has a tendency to tell us who is attractive, that is probably why you said "Angelina's attractive, I don't know why.". Because we are told this maybe? I'd say she's attractive, but masculinized. She is nowhere near as masculinized as Karolina. She is extremely thin, with a less than impressive backside, but it is still more feminized than Alessandra (who looks like the actor Matt Dillon when he was younger, lol), Marissa Miller, and Adriana, though I do think Adriana, especially as she is becoming more of a woman, has a cuter face, possibly with some pseudo feminization. Erik's the expert on that, not me. I'm making an educated guess.

Why do you think I'm Emily? Just curious....

As far as your utter fixation with your own feminity, why don't you visit a doctor, discuss your concerns, and see if there isn't any type of blood work (I'm sure there has to be), and then let your poor little head rest? It seems like this has become an unhealthy obsession. Just because you liked Barbies and also playing basketball doesn't necessarily mean that you're "pseudo" feminine. I too did the same things as a child, a lot of little girls like to play with boys...you are overanalyzing this, you do realize that excessive stress and worry can throw hormones out of whack? The point is, a doctor, not Erik, is the one you need to be asking this of.

I am very confident in my femininity, and fertility, even though I've not yet started a family, because I have no reason to suspect I'm not. There's no family history of it, I have regular cycles, etc. and see no reason to upset myself with all these "What ifs?" I'm several years older than you (26), and I guess that I have a healthy self-esteem, and see no point in worrying about things that may or may not happen.

Godis, if what you describe of yourself is true, you must be a pretty and feminine young lady, ok?

BTW: I still think you're nuts if you think Charlize, Kathrine, and Marilyn have round faces. An oval is an elongated round shape. They all really are ovals. Are you disagreeing because you can't bring yourself to agree with Emily, because of personal reasons? Just wondering.

An example of a woman with masuline facial features, but a feminine physique...Jessica Biel....pseudo fem?

Jessica Biel Pictures, Images and Photos

Jessica Biel Pictures, Images and Photos

jes Pictures, Images and Photos

She no doubt has a masculine face, and a tendency toward a broad upper body, but she is lovely and her lower body seems to make the cut...

jessica biel Pictures, Images and Photos

She is another who may be pseudo fem, though she has more masculine features than Charlize. I'm also not sure of her ethnic background, as Erik has explained that that too, plays a role.

-Barberella (Veronicka)

Curvy Scarlett

Scarlett Johansson Pictures, Images and Photos

Scarlett Johansson Pictures, Images and Photos

Scarlett Johansson Pictures, Images and Photos

Scarlett Johansson Pictures, Images and Photos

Although she has been called "fat" by some in Hollyweird, she seems pretty feminine to me.

Barberella;

"Godis, if what you describe of yourself is true, you must be a pretty and feminine young lady, ok?"

She is not describing herself. She is describing her Drew Barrymore and Katherine Heigl posters. lol

"BTW: I still think you're nuts if you think Charlize, Kathrine, and Marilyn have round faces. An oval is an elongated round shape. They all really are ovals. Are you disagreeing because you can't bring yourself to agree with Emily, because of personal reasons? Just wondering."

I actually think she really believes they all have round faces. She has been harping about round faces for a very long time now, and sees them everywhere.

She has one herself, so maybe she wants to include stars in "her" category. A very immature way of thinking that I don't believe is at odds with her general immaturity and teen mentality.

It is obvious that she simply cannot/ will not assess face shapes correctly. She doesn't understand the basic technique of visually measuring height and width of a face, and then compare the differences.

If the difference is small = round face. If the difference is larger = oval face. If the difference is notably large = long face.

"Emily, on another thread, I had posted a reply to "booty man", who said that Northern Europeans had flat backsides, not sure if you saw it: A Swedish girl...."

Booty man is probably a borderline fetishist who finds that nothing short of Kim Kardashian's giant backside is sexually stimulating. Men who need that kind of over-stimulation are probably often great consumers of pornography, and therefore become desensitized.

Nordic girls generally have nicely rounded, medium-sized backsides, but not often the giant, violently protruding primate backside seen among blacks and some latin women with black admixture.

Swedish girl;

That is what a feminine, softly curving backside should look like, I agree. Whatever has come over men here in the States, maybe it's the whole "ghetto fab" culture, where whites, for whatever reason, are adopting the latin/black "hip-hop" culture, and are exhalting these "fat" asses. Kim Kardashian and Jennifer Lopez style butts are in fashion right now. Although I might add, in spite of this "trend", Latin and Black men have no problem commenting on my "nice ass" (nice language, huh? But that's the term they use.) Of course, their women become incensed with envy and jealousy, because even if countless numbers of hip-hop videos display those kinds of backsides, if the truth be told, their men would really rather admire the type of body/backside that are characteristic of fair, properly proportioned white women.

nice butts Pictures, Images and Photos

A bit of an extreme example, I realize, but I think it proves my point.

Respectfully, Barberella (Veronicka)

And as far as Godis and her assessment of face shapes: if she is an art student, she will have a rude awakening in her Life Drawing classes, but then I can also see her arguing with her instructors, too.

As an artist, Godis, I think that it's very important that you get a grasp of this now.

Good luck to you, and I do not mean that facetiously (sp?)

Wow. I have no trouble in drawing class. Not to mention I am not studying art or drawing, I am doing other studies related to other things. Drawing is my passion, it's something I do to escape from reality. It's something I reserve for meditation, not work. My future career is not based on drawing, although it will be based on creativity.

I draw very well. I can draw realistically very well. I am very natural. It does not matter how I define a shape, as an oval or a circle. My brain recognizes that shape intuitivley, it does not need to associate a definition. I just draw what I see, it doesn't matter how I define what I see. Either way, what seperates me from you is that I pay attention to details The way the jaw and chin connect, how far the cheekbones go past the forhead or if they morph into the forhead, etc. You look at the big picture. You see the length, the width, and a shape and you believe it to be a specific shape. I don't work that way. I am overall a big picture kind of girl, but when it comes to art I am very detailed. It is refreshing, because I usually have to see the big picture to understand things. I need to know the goal to work towards it. With art I pick apart every detail, and all the details make up the whole, whether I see the whole right away or not.

Anyways, I have a crappy camera because it is on my computer. My camera broke and I haven't gotten around to buying a new one for like half a year now because they are so expensive for me. Either way this is the best I can do. Here is my face shape. Please don't be creepy and save it on your computer:

You think I'm lying about everything, but I'm really not. I do concentrate on my good points when I write, don't think I don't believe I have flaws. I do. I just rarely mention them here, although I can admit them.

Photobucket

Photobucket

I'm wearing a black headband, as you can see. And it seems my head is slightly angled, but it wouldn't make a big diffrence if it was straight because it practically is straight in the photo. The only thing you can't really see is as much of my other ear, but my ears are pretty pinned back, even when I look straight you barely see them. I think it's called occipitul flattering, and mostly only Eastern Europeans exhibit that.

I think my face is round, because its hard to see, but if you look at my chin, it is rounded. Anyways, I traced it for you. I also have a broad forhead. If I get a better camera I will take better photos. My chin looks a little more rounded than usual, and a little big, because my face was pressed into my neck a bit, making my chin disappear a bit, its hard to take photos on your laptop. Either way, it gives you a good idea on my face shape. It's rounded, not oval!

GODIS: YOUR FACE IS OVAL, TAKE IT FROM SOMEONE WHO WORKS IN THE BEAUTY INDUSTRY, WHO DEALS WITH EYEBROW SHAPING ON A VERY REGULAR BASIS, YOU'RE CHIN IS ROUNDED, BUT YOUR FACE IS AN ELONGATED CIRCLE, I.E. OVAL.

I don't know if I'm ever going to try to have this discussion with you again. Shall I show it to my co-workers, who work in the salon/spa that I do, the ones who are professional estheticians, make-up artists, and hairstylists? Those of us who work in this industry are required to know how to ascertain facial shapes. It is essential to our livlihood. If I could not analyze or assess facial shapes correctly, than I would have sought an alternative profession some years ago.

I work in a very upscale, downtown salon/spa in a major city, with very picky, elitist clientele. I'm not a small town, gum-smacking, gossiping "beautician". I make a very decent living doing what I do. The first thing that one learns, as he or she is training in this profession, is facial anatomy/physiology, for the purpose of ASSESSING FACIAL SHAPES CORRECTLY.

Why you are so stubborn, I can't decide, I think you are beginning to mentally self-destruct. You have just outlined your face, and the shape is oval, so congratulations, you have the ideal face shape. I'd assume you'd be happy to hear this news, as it appears that you are miserably insecure. If it appears that I am no longer being polite when speaking with you, it is because of your obstinance. You claim that you want to be evaluated, so you can "learn", and when someone tries to teach you something, you deny what they say. Unbelievable.

No matter what you claim, you are inept at evaluating facial shapes, whereas, Emily and I have proven numerous times, that we aren't.

By the way, there is a very strong corelation of artistry in my profession. "Unlike you, I pay attention to detail.", is what you said.
How do you know this? I pay very close attention to detail. Have you ever had a bad haircut, or a botched highlight service? THOSE people didn't pay attention to detail, I can assure you. The cosmetology profession is one part geometry, one part anatomy, and two parts ARTISTIC TALENT.

Here are some more photos of my hourglass figure that I am also not lying about.

Photobucket

Photobucket

Photobucket

Photobucket

Photobucket

Photobucket

Please note: I actually appear chunkier than I usually am. I am technically overweight. I mean I'm not really fat, but I am chubby and *technically* overweight, as my body mass index is not where it should be. When I weighed around 115-120 I looked my most feminine. My waist has disappeared a bit. Here is a photo showing that:

Photobucket

So yes I am an hourglass shape. You can see as to why I am so confused about my femininity-masculinity, because I look feminine but have high testosterone levels and it is more than finger length that determines this!

I hope you can dispell the idea that I also am barely caucasian as well Emily. Although the camera on my computer distorts skin tone, you can clearly tell I am pale. On top of that anyone that recognizes skin tones can tell that is the skin tone of someone with light hair. I am actually paler in reality!

Barberella:

I don't mean to insult you. I get what you mean. The problem is I guess that photo is a bad representation. As I said, photographs actually elongate my face. If you compare my face to most people's it is almost half as short, but almost as wide. Although it is not robust or boxy. So, I still do think I have a round/combination type of face. I am not stubborn. I did learn something about my face. It is a combination type, and not just plain round like I believed before. I agree that there is an oval element to it. But trust me if I sat in front of you, you would be startled as to how diff. it looks in reality than the photo above. However, its the best I could do to capture it.

Mostly though, I was trying to prove to Emily as well I do not have a super round, broad, boxy, face as she percieves Eastern European faces to be. The post more than ever was aimed at Emily. I agree with you my face is oval. However, sometimes it does lean towards the round side, especially when I'm chubby. lol

Oh and I'm removing those photos soon, please don't save them on your computers. Either way, it won't help anyone if they do.

I'll also add, that I'm not "creepy", why on earth would I save that image on my computer? You are extremely self-obsessed, Godis. I have a life. I had a minor surgical procedure done (tonsilectomy), which is why I've had the time lately to post here. I'll continue to visit this site, but it's back to work for me in a few days, so you'll hear less from me. But you will still hear from me, and like it or not, if you continue to post inaccuracies, I'll continue to correct them.

Godis, you're not overweight, for gods' sake. I never doubted what you said you looked like, I doubted your ability to assess facial shapes. And I stand by that statement. You seem to have a low self opinion, it's sad. I'm not Emily, either!! Yes, it appears that you're pale, I never said anything about the looks of you. You keep referencing things that Emily's said to you, and it is not relevant to my comments.

lol and my belly button is not usually that round, its more oval, but im fat lol

My ribcage is also covered in fat, so it looks huge. But either way, this just shows that:

a) I don't criticize any of Eriks work because I'm super manly or jealous or anything
b) I'm white
c) I don't have a watermelon head or anything Emily is hoping I have

I also want to note Barberella that I think Malin Akerman is very beautiful as well. She has a really pretty feminine face, but well defined, which is always a plus. She always reminds me of Barbie, but not in a bad way.

akerman088.png Pictures, Images and Photos

Photobucket

Photobucket

Photobucket

Don't they look almost exactly the same? I do agree that out of any Europeans, and any Northern Europeans: Germans, English, Irish, etc. Barbie most resembles Swedes. However, that doesn't mean every Swede looks like that and that there aren't different kinds of beauty besides just Barbie's type of beauty.

Barberella, sorry but yeah, my post adressing you and Emily both but I wasn't specific. Mostly because I am ranting on. But, I do have a life. Again, right now I am studying and doint this stuff in between my breaks. I also multi-task A LOT. And I'm not calling you creepy. Emily saved photos of people on her computer before, and they reappeared after they had already been removed from online.

Emily:

You mentioned if I was attractive I should get feedback in real life. Well, yah guys always tell me how beautiful I am until they find out I won't do anything with them. Then I'm not so beautiful anymore, and yes when guys leave you because of your beliefs it eats away at your self-esteem and makes you really lonely because you're the only 20 yr. old girl without a guy because you wont do what it seems most 20 yr. old girls do.

Anyways, yah I have self-confidence issues. But I would really like to know why I am such a strange feminine-masculine hybrid as well.

and I don't doubt you are attractive either Emily, but I also don't doubt your ignorance on the attractiveness of people that don't look like you, a blue-eyed blonde Nordic.

Barberella;

"Why you are so stubborn, I can't decide, I think you are beginning to mentally self-destruct."

Godis wants a non-stop debate about herself. As soon as we all agree on something the focus on her will be gone, so she has to come up with crazy statements to fuel the debate, cause confusion, and direct attention on her.

It was her finger, next it will be her toe, or right ear that bothers her, and a teacher she had in school once who was mean to her, but at the same time seemed to appreciate her looks, and what does it all mean.. This nonsense could go on forever. I will just ignore her.

Note that it is all about her, and how you now focus your energy and attention on her, and on figuring her out. Narcissists love that. The only thing they really cannot stand is indifference.

Godis, I don't want you to have a watermelon head. Unlike you I don't wish people ill, you see. The very negative impression you have made here is entirely your own doing.

Godis, I'm not commenting on your looks, I'm actually asking if you'd consider speaking with a counselor or therapist. If you say that guys only think you're beautiful until they try unsuccessfuly to get in your pants, I would say that it is typical of girls with low self-esteem to attract the kind of men that will degrade you and demean you.

I think the over-analysis of your looks on this site should stop. Yes, this site deals with feminine beauty, but in the context of fashion models and beauty pageant contestants, and the over masculinization of women in these realms, as well as a possible solution to fixing what has become a horribly twisted ideal.

Emily,
I didn't mean that you wish I would attain those features somehow. I mean you wish I had those features in the first place, so putting me down would be easier for you. I am not the ultimate narcissist, you are. You are the one that constantly speaks of the Nordic race, and no other race. You claim you have to defend your race and the misconceptions that people post about them on here, however you are really defending yourself. I posted those photos for many reasons, one of them to dispell your notion that I am a round faced, hooked nosed ugly Romanian. As you can see I look just as normal as any Nordic from face shape to skin tone, to body type. I don't have a super round or robust face, or any of the other ideas you give anyone about me. Just as you defend your Nordic race, I defend myself and the fact that your ideas about my ethnicity are false and exaggarated. I am not the exception either, there are many other "Romanians" like me. You are ignorant to the extreme.

Ultimatley, I do want to know if I am considered feminine or masculine, my posts are not based on narcissism. I don't think Erik is the ultimate expert on the subject,if there even are any experts on this subject, however if he decides to give me his opinion, I would be interested in it. Similarly, I am always looking for ways to boost my health and attractiveness. I strongly believe in self-improvement or self-evolution. I would love to know of any healthy ways for one to be more feminine. I don't see why there is anything wrong with this. My comments were not addressed to anyone but Erik. I don't even have to answer you in the first place.

I am simply intrigued by myself and other women. What really makes someone attractive? This is a subject I am interested in and something I want answered for reasons ranging from philosiphical to self-gain. However, I don't think the answer is as simple as Erik and others are making it out to be, not that he claims he has all the answers. A lot of factors determine someone's physical attractiveness, some we may not even be aware of at this point..
I do have self-esteem issues just like anyone else. However, I think you guys are blowing it out of proportion. I'm fine. But I have my issues as well. Either way, you two (Emily and Barberella) read my posts as if I am a desperate insecure girl looking for answers. It's easy to misread emotions or the way something is meant to be said, when there is no expression to see on someones face or tone of voice to hear that indicates exactly how they mean what they are saying. Facial expressions and voice tone probably make up most of the meaning of anything that is said. Therefore, you see me a certain way, but I see my posts in a totally different light. I see myself as someone who honestly wants to learn about herself and is giving Erik all the facts so he can accuratley assess what I want to know for myself, without revealing too much (I would never show him my face for example, or anything too personal). You act like I am begging Erik for an answer and that whatever Erik says will make my life or break it. Hardly. I would not allow my perspective of myself to be determined by anyone but myself. I will however allow their perspectives to shape my perceptions of myself, but in the end I utlimatley define myself by becoming who I want to be to the extent I can.I want to know his opinion, simple as that. It doesn't mean what he says is true, but it's always nice to get feedback and see other people's points of view.I try to keep an open mind although naturally I am a very stubborn person. This goes against my nature, but is my ultimate goal. I believe the foundations of genius lie in open mindedness, not that I'd ever be a genius, it is just my philosiphy.Back on the subject... I know what I think of Erik and what I think of his advice. I think Erik is helpful and knows some truths to what beauty is, however, he like the rest of the world isn't even on the verge of understanding beauty 100%, and neither am I. At least he knows something about something though, and I find that valuable.

Barberella:
"Godis, I'm not commenting on your looks, I'm actually asking if you'd consider speaking with a counselor or therapist. If you say that guys only think you're beautiful until they try unsuccessfuly to get in your pants, I would say that it is typical of girls with low self-esteem to attract the kind of men that will degrade you and demean you"

Here we go with the self-esteem issues again. I'm sorry Barberella, but I think what you don't understand here is that I do not allow men to demean or degrade me. I don't let them get in my pants, that is the point. I would be allowing a man to demean and degrade me if I had sex with him knowing that he is in the relationship primarily for sexual reasons. That is one reason I don't have sex with men, even those I have been dating for months at a time. Men will go through a lot for that, I don't give in. I believe I have high self-value overall. If I had low self-confidence I would do anything, even have sex with someone, to feel wanted and appreciated.

Yes,I have my moments where I don't feel good about myself. Like for example, when I realized that I have a lot of masculine qualities and therefore must be masculine and not attractive at all. I can be a drama queen and sometimes I have my reason for being one ranging from boredom to experimentation with people's reactions. However,deep down inside I know very well I am just fine, but that doesn't mean I have reached my potential in terms of my attractiveness. I'd also like to note that the reason I have been concentrating on myself more than anything else lately is because my attention has slowly shifted away from what makes populations of people attractive to what makes me as an individual attractive and how my attractivness can be improved. In the end it doesn't matter if a population of people is on average attractive. I would love to know the reason why certain populations of people are more attractive on average, however in the end it doesn't affect me. I am unique and I don't easily fall into any population of people, just like most people don't. Very few people will carry all the stereotypical traits of their ethnicity and even if they do, those characteristics will be unique and eventually judged individually.Very few Nordic women will have the typical Nordic nose, the typical Nordic eyes, the typical Nordic bellybutton, the typical Nordic body shape. Do you get my drift? Similarly, if they did it might be fascinating for an hour, or a week, or a certain period but soon become boring. Besides, one stereotypical Nordic nose may shift towards attractive while another won't. It's all in the details in the end and how all the features harmonize together. No one has the same combination of features or features alone, even if they are similair. When it comes to beauty one slight detail can make one person more attractive than the other. Even when it comes to twins there is always something about one that makes her more attractive than the other. Why is that? On the other hand, in the end, one woman alone cannot win the most beautiful woman in the world award. This is because although the majority of people in the world are all intuitivley attracted to a certain set of features, every person has his or her preferences tailored to their own needs. A man with a small button nose, may find a woman with more of an elegant aquiline nose more attractive subconciously in hopes that his children will ultimatley have a more balanced nose. On another note someone may admire a certain type of nose for its character, therefore this person doesn't want a mate that will balance everything out, but add a distinct feature they would like to see passed on for their own subconcious reasons. We barely know how the brain works and how attraction is related to that. I believe everyone's brain is wired a specific way for specific reasons relating specifically to themselves and their interests.

You also think I have low confidence because I think I am overweight. This is an example of my point before. The way you read it was not the way I intended it be interpreted. Had you understood my tone better, which is partly my fault for not expressing better through my words, you would understand that I hold no emotional attachment to the words: I am overweight. I am simply overweight. This means nothing to me except that I simply have been slightly negligent in managing myself and the result is some extra fat around the hips. I don't weigh what I should for my height and age. It is simple as that. My weight is only a slight problem. I went to college and got fat, it isn't something uncommon in the United States unfortunatley. However, I am confident in my ability to become healthy again in terms of eating right and exercising. It is all a matter of making up my mind to stop being lazy. Don't worry lol I'm not anorexic, I find a woman is most attractive at the weight she was created to be. In the end I simply stated that I am overweight, because my weight makes me appear more masculine. I appear more masculinized than if I were at my appropriate weight. I actually am at a strange point right now, because my weight is fluctuating up and down as it does before I really start to lose it and go back to normal. When this happens the first place I lose that weight is in my breasts, which is also the first place I gain weight. So my breasts appear smaller compared to everything than usual. My body hasn't had time to catch up, and therefore looks bigger in relation. That is why I appear more masculine than usual, not to mention my chubby arms are the worst! Either way, the point is that I want to know if I am feminine or not and since I am overweight I believe it is an important thing to add. I embarssingly weigh almost 140lbs which is far from the 115-120 pounds I should weigh. 140 would be fine if I was a few inches taller but I am not. This is the heaviest I have been in my life, I am lucky I put weight on pretty well and in the right places. However, I am sure that if I were 5 pounds heavier I would really start to lose any shape I had.

I also agree on your view related to obesity. Being overweight or obese should not be a lifestyle choice. It is a health problem. People were not designed to carry more fat than they can handle around. Obese people will not function in the world as well as people who are at a healthy weight in many aspects. This is simply because the human body was not designed like that. I will just state again that a person is most productive and attractive at their healthy weight range. I do not support promoting women who are overweight as beautiful. I realize I may sound a bit harsh and insensitive. I myself can gain and lose weight easily, so although I gain weight, especially after I reached the age of 19, I never had trouble losing it. I suppose I never will as my mother is almost 50 and never really struggled with serious weight gain. So I understand for someone like me who has not gone through the emotional issues attached to weight gain, it is easy say such things. I believe weight problems start at a young age, and are usually the result of poor diet choices by the mother for her children whom have no control or understanding in relation to their eating habits. This may also be a cycle in the family, where the mother has such bad eating habits she cannot overcome them and as a result she passes them on to her children by feeding them what she herself eats, and therefore conditioning them to eat a certain way. Another way this can happen is if the parents are too busy to pay particular attention to the foods their children and they themselves eat, therefore ignoring a problem until it becomes hard to reverse. Successful weight loss is all in the mind, and it is hard to rewire the brain after it has been hardwired by a lifetime or childhood of bad diet choices.I believe eating habits are some of the hardest to overcome or change, not to mention it is natural for our body to want to store fat as this is a survival mechanism to avoid any possibility of starvation.

Emily,

"and a teacher she had in school once who was mean to her, but at the same time seemed to appreciate her looks"

What is that supposed to mean? I don't get how that is related to anything. I just feel it is a strange example to use really...

Oh and Emily,

Stop claiming I wish harm to people. You are overexaggarating my statement about a broken nose. You're being a drama queen. It was a way of expressing my anger and also a harsh way to make you realize that you too could end up with something you so hate. I was just trying to show to you that you could end up with a bad nose, so you shouldn't make fun of people with bad noses. It's as simple as that. Many people break their noses.

I wouldn't hurt a fly. It is not in my nature to be insensitive like that. However, on here I feel like I have to be. I feel like I have to put up a certain image just to get you to pay attention to what I am trying to say. If I am not wild and outlandish you will simply dismiss what I say. At least this way you are paying attention to something.

I am naturally nurturing and will be the first person to take care of someone when they are sick or in need of help. I treat animals better than most people treat other people for God's sake! I have my flaws, and sometimes I am insensitive, but everyone even tells me that I have very motherly instincts. It seemed that they have just skyrocketed these past few years. I am literally turning into my mother, just the other day I called MY parents to make sure they were ok and coming home soon!

Sometimes I even worry about complete strangers. At work I always get 100% customer service reviews because I feel really bad if I can't help people find what they need! It's just in my nature to make sure someone is taken care of and happy. I think that every woman masculine or feminine is like this to a certain extent. I don't see how they can't be. I never understood how some women don't want children either. NEVER! I understand it from a logical point of view, but my emotions are too attached to family and relationships to live without certain ones

I forgot to put my name, but I wrote the above.

Also,

"I think that every woman masculine or feminine is like this to a certain extent."

I don't really believe every woman is naturally nurturing, but I think it should be that way.

"I am simply intrigued by myself and other women"

Yes, you are intrigued in that you love to talk about yourself and could easily write a 500 page book on the subject. Intrigued in that you love to talk badly of women far more attractive than you, especially Scandinavian blonde and blue-eyed girls. Envy? ..you bet.

As soon as someone is slender you say they are not hourglass shapes, it seems. Well, you might be a semi-fat hourglass shape, but you are also someone who mostly Middle Eastern men would find attractive.

You complain that men won't be serious with you. Well, would you be serious with you if you were them?

Men obviously prefer slender, in shape women who don't talk about themselves all day long, and that is why they won't be serious with you. You are just not the kind of woman they want for a serious relationship, and I can see why.

I haven't met many men since I have always been in serious long-lasting relationships, so I never needed to, and men who met me have always wanted to see me and be with me in genuine, serious relationships.

I am totally unfamiliar with the reality you describe, and I don't blame everything on the men you meet. Surely, there has to be a common factor since they seem to treat you with disinterest and a lack of respect.

Men detest egotistical women, just like women detest egotistical men. You are 20 and you already look like that, by the way? You are short, too, so that doesn't help. Your metabolism won't increase with age, you know. Go out and jog, and go to the gym and get a decent body, instead of spending your time in front of a computer talking about yourself and eating popcorn all day.

By the way, skin colour doesn't prove race. You got that wrong. There are gypsies in Romania who have fair skin, for example.

All you have shown is that your ego-centricity has no limits, you are unattractively overweight, and you have been dishonest in describing your face shape.

Godis;

"Plus, yes I do wish that you get a hooked nose."

"If you were to break your nose I would hope it would turn extremely big and robust."

"I am naturally nurturing"

Emily,

I just love how you take a few of my words out of context and try to make the point that I am some evil person, when you come on here and criticize me for being fat. You claim I am a Narcissist, and someone with issues. So what do you do? You try to put me down even more. You claim you wish no harm to people, but often times words can harm someone more than anything physical can. Don't lose any sleep over it though, I could care less that you disapprove of my weight. Yes, I want to be back to my healthy size, but at the same time I don't look horrible when I put a little fat on. I do look a little "husky", but I think it could be much worse. I just find it amusing that you claim I wish harm to others when you have no problem poking fun of girls on here. You made fun of Ekaterina's nose and now you make fun of my body. Don't come up with the, "It's your fault for posting photos of yourself" either, because if you truly believed someone had issues and low self-esteem you would know better. According to you I have low self-esteem, so how are you helping it? You obviously know that if I truly was a person with low self-esteem posting photos of myself you would only be making my issues worse. You don't care though, however you do care if I say something mean to you. Why is there a double standard? Why are you allowed to degrade my looks, but I am not allowed to wish you had learned a lesson?

I also like how you are trying to portay me as someone only a middle eastern man could find attractive because I am a little on the chunky side. Is that a bad thing? Didn't Barberella mention herself, that she a Nordic woman got attention from BLACK men? Oh my! So then why is it so bad then that the type of guy that likes me would be Middle Eastern? You try to compare me to someone like Kim Kardashian, a girl who has a "primate" behind, is thick, and only has black guys after her. I look nowhere near close to Kim Kardashian. I don't have her thick lips and long face or anything like that. I do look thick but I am overweight, who doesn't look thick when they are overweight? For your information men ranging from white to middle eastern to hispanic to asian to black have admired the way I look, overweight or thin. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that an hourglass shape looks good on a thin or heavier frame?

I also don't understand your logic. You claim I cannot keep long term relationships? I have had 1 long term relationship lasting one year and a half. Finally, we broke it off because I had moved away to college and the long distance was creating issues. I am 20 yrs. old as you know. I assumed you were around the same age Emily. Either way, how many 20 something year old guys do you know that want a long term relationship when they can screw any slut on campus with relativley little effort and a few beers? Clearly you don't understand the mind of any late teen-early twenties year old male. Maybe I do because of my high testosterone levels LOL but I think it's just a bit of observation, a tad of experience and a lot of common sense.

I think you would find it surprising how close my features are shifted to what you would call "Nordic" looks. I'm positive if I posted photos of my face you would even have to acknowledge it, although then you'd go on a rampage about how I am a little German, even though my mother, whom I most resemble and who has the exact replica of my figure, is Romanian with minor Hungarian influence, so minor it is barely traceable.

Might I add that I hardly have to move away from my computer to go on a jog to lose any weight. All I have to do is take the soft drinks out of my diet and stop over indulging. I usually don't drink pop anyways, I just did during college for all nighters because of the sugar rush. Energy drinks are unsafe I believe, not that pop/soda is any better. I gain weight easily, but I lose it just as easily.

Godis.. I have always suspected that your strange, aggressive and frequently incorrect remarks were the result of envy. As such I found it hard to take you or your comments seriously. I couldn't prove it, though.

Now everyone can see that you have motive for envy. You are unattractive, and you have little success with men, supposedly because they are all beasts and want one thing.

Strange then, that I have never noticed that. I was 20 not many years ago, and guys never treated me bad, ever. Not now, not then. People like you always blame others. You will never find faults with yourself in relationships. Self-centered people just can't.

I think you have a personality that is off-putting, quite frankly. Your egotism is a turn-off to people who only see your rantings here. Imagine what it must be like to hear you obsessing about yourself 24/7.

Or to hear you hoping someone would punch and break a pretty girl's nose just because you don't like her attitude. I bet that kind of talk really would have them running to the flower store.

You don't even have the decency to say it was wrong of you to call me names, and hoping I would be physically assaulted because "I made fun of someone's nose".

You STILL try to justify it. That's how totally cold and twisted you are, apparently, and I suppose guys sense that about you. That and an unattractive body only you could try to pass off as an hourglass figure..well, why would they care to stay?

Never mind the fact, godis, that I did admit in that thread that I had posted an immature comment about her.
You STILL wish, today, months later, that my nose should be broken. That is the kind of girl you are. Hateful, narcissistic, self-obsessed, vindictive, unforgiving and deeply envious.

My statement about getting hit on by black guys was in the context of that no matter how much blacks, latinos, etc. put down white people, they will ALWAYS hit on a pretty white girl, because they often see us as status symbols, something to brag about to their friends. As an American, Godis, I'm sure you're aware of this. On the rhinoplasty thread, Emily posted thumbnails of Swedes, and their was a pic of a black man kissing a Swedish girl on the cheek, saying "All men love Swedish girls!". My statement was in reference to that, how may non-white males are smitten with fair, light eyed white girls.

I only encouraged you to look at yourself in terms of self-esteem because it was you who said guys paid you attention, until you refused to put out. Obviously, I don't know you, so it was an assumption based on things most rever as common knowledge. How could you interpret that as an insult, when it was a comment made out of genuine concern, based on the things that you, yourself, had made about yourself.

"Yah, I have some self confidence issues...", is what you said a few posts ago.

Also, whereas Emily takes the criticisms and sometimes "attacks" by others in an adult way, you have a tendency to go off the deep end, and yes, we all know that broken noses rarely kill or permanatly maim, it was still a very extreme way of handling something she'd said to, or about you, that you found offensive. I think you personally could've handled that better. I believe it was those comments that she refers to when she says that she feels that you are immature, or insecure.

Godis, as you say, you want to continue to grow and learn about yourself, and sometimes that means hearing things that we feel are offensive. Though you may not see it now, you may one day thank Emily!

Emily,

"Your egotism is a turn-off to people who only see your rantings here."

When I first saw this sentence I had to go back up and make sure you wrote it because I was sure it was someone else on the thread referring to yourself.

"Now everyone can see that you have motive for envy. You are unattractive, and you have little success with men, supposedly because they are all beasts and want one thing."

Yes, Emily. It is these Swedish girls I envy. Oh how I wish I had their perfect toned bodies sigh

svedka Pictures, Images and Photos

Photobucket

Photobucket

and their perfect shaped faces... sighs some more...

oh wait according to Barberella, a NORTHERN EUROPEAN, I do have the ideal face type. Hmmm... so much for being envious...

Barberella,

That is so mean to call someone dumb. Maybe someone has trouble articulating themselves, but that doesn't mean they are dumb.

Emily,

I also wonder why you have to always post photos of such unattractive Asians. There are many attractive Asians, and I still believe that many times certain Asian features mixed with caucasian ones would increase the attractiveness of a Caucasian female. My examples:

Kate Beckinsale is a feminine woman:

Kate Beckinsale Pictures, Images and Photos

She has distant Asian connections. There is some Asian DNA in there believe it or not. I read that somewhere, you can verify it if you want. Kate Beckingsale has some Asian DNA.

Kristin Kreuk:

Has obviously recent Asian DNA

kristin kreuk 2 Pictures, Images and Photos

And really Emily honestly, I would never mean any harm to you. And I do have a little confession to make:

Those "pig" noses are sooo cute and I always wanted a cute nose like that. So there I admitted it, stop crucifying me over the nose thing. Although I do indeed like more elegant elongated noses, I always admired the cute slightly upturned nose. Ok. There is a bit of envy there. But to a certain extent, everyone wants certain features they don't have.

I like this profile because its soo cute:

Nicole Kidman Pictures, Images and Photos

That doesn't mean I don't admire a nice longer straighter less upturned nose like my own either though:

Katherine Heigl Pictures, Images and Photos

Katherine Heigl Pictures, Images and Photos

But it is clear which nose will look more feminine.

Katherine Heigl has a primarily Northern/Western European type nose. Realisticly, ask yourself, is her nose characteristic of Medeterranian, Asian, African, E. European noses? No, it's fine and straight. Not all Nordic noses are as "upturned" as Nicole's. There are variants in all people, in all populations, as Erik's pointed out. Katherine may have brown eyes, but there are white N./N.W. Europeans that do, while maintaining other typical Northern European features, such as her face and eye shape, lips, etc.

Emily has already stated on another thread that she found Kate Beckinsale's looks to be quite lovely, after I'd posted pics there. And I'm not sure where you see Asian admixture in Kate? Erik has also mentioned, that persons of the same populations have a variety of features, it does not usually denote foriegn admixture, as much as a lot of people here like to claim that it does!!

Kristen Kruek is cute, but beautiful? I don't happen to think so. As a matter of fact, she proves a lot of Emily's arguments here, so why she is always used as an example to disspel Emily's theories is useless. Yes, she looks cute because of her Asian looks, but the refinement of those looks is credited to European admixture!!

By the way Godis, what do you think of these two young ladies? Amy Adams....

78692699BG041_2007_New_York

Or Rachel Hurd Wood?

Rachel Hurd-Wood

Both of these young ladies have Nordic noses, but you can see that there are variations. They both would be considered "Nordic", or have considerable Nordic admixture, but they are British/Irish (Rachel), and Amy is an Irish and German American.

So you see, one doesn't have to be a pure blooded Scandinavian to have the elegant North Europran nose!

Godis, as far as calling anonymous DUMB, she is a rambling fool with no relevant points to make. All she wants to do is call me names, have you noticed that? If you're so concerned, go back and tell her that she's mean. ALL SHE DOES IS INSULT AND BAIT ME, DAY AFTER DAY, AND WHAT'S WORSE, SHE CAN'T EVEN MAKE SENSE DOING IT!!! Catch my drift?

Kristin Kreuk is overrated. In many candid shots, without the staging and air-brushing, she looks odd, just like so many racially mixed people do.

Her worst traits are her nose, (Probably surgically altered), and her squinting, semi-mongoloid eyes.

She did have a kind of girly cuteness to her, but as she matures that fades and her biracial beauty problems will take over.

Kristin Kreuk;

Like many race-mixed people her face is identity-less, and there is lack of harmony. She is always put forth as an ideal and that is pathetic. She really is of more use to me, in that I can say that her mongoloid admixture is her great weakness, just like I could in the case of Emma Ward.

An unusually attractive Asian girl - like this Vietnamese girl - is more attractive since there is harmony, balance and racial purity in her face. There are not different forces that clash and fight for dominance in her face. I rarely find Asians good-looking so this girl is indeed part of a very exclusive club. lol

Most ordinary Asians, without the staged photos, the white admixture or the plastic surgery, are often unattractive.
Their good looks is a myth. Exceptions to the rule do not change the rule. I'm not interested in showing photos that represent a tiny minority of a population.

So, if you think my photos are unattractive it is because ordinary 100% Asians are unattractive, on average. Their round, flat heads, mongoloid features and underdeveloped bodies are simply often very unappealing traits.

These are Japanese cheerleaders, supposedly selected for their beauty. Count on that at least half of them have had some plastic surgery (double eye lid surgery and nose job being the most popular. Plastic surgery is booming in Asia as the general standard of living increases. Supposedly because they are so fond of their Asian features.)

Godis, really, stop embarrassing yourself by posting your photos again. You're not in a Turkish belly dance contest. Those girls you mocked look like athletes in comparison to you.

"oh wait according to Barberella, a NORTHERN EUROPEAN, I do have the ideal face type"

So do many Romanian gypsies, for example. They have oval faces sometimes.

Most of them have "Roman" or hooked noses, and some have fair skin, maybe due to admixture with ordinary Romanians.

Gypsy women's beauty and dance contest, Bucharest, Romania;

Gypsies prefer to be called Roma people. Could it possibly be a link to..Romania? Romania has a very large Roma population, and there seems to be a lot of race mixing going on since not so few Romanians look very Roma-like.

Some people should shave before they go out, I think.

Sorry Godis, looked up Kate Beckinsale, she is Anglo-Burmese, half British, half Euroasian (British/Burmese mix), she is far more European looking, no doubt. The admixture isn't very recent, I agree. I can admit when I've posted an inaccuracy! She does not carry typical Asian traits whatsoever, as is the reason I had to look this up, it was so hard to believe. Yes, she is a very classy, sexy and feminine looking woman. I still stand by my statement regarding Kristen Kruek, and I totally see Emily's point, as she is aging, her features are looking much less harmonious.

Umm...

What do Romanian Gypsies have to do with me having an oval face?

The only logical thing I can think of to make from your statements is that you would like to associate me to Gypsies, who according to you, all have big hooked noses. Because I HAVE to have a big hooked nose or else you wouldn't feel ok. If it makes you feel better Emily, I HAVE A BIG HUMONGOUS GINORMOUS HOOKED NOSE!

Are you happy?

Because even if you're happy, it doesn't make it true.

You just wish I looked horrible because then it would be so easy to claim I am envious of Nordics and that is the only reason I disagree with anything you say. Please.

Not to mention that not all gypsies are unattractive. You can find stunning gypsies. I have no gypsy blood as far as I know.

Kristin Kreuk is only 26. She is barely aging, she just started if even. Kristin Kreuk is practically aneorexic in those photos. That is why she looks like crap. Anyone looks like crap that skinny.

"Godis, really, stop embarrassing yourself by posting your photos again. You're not in a Turkish belly dance contest. Those girls you mocked look like athletes in comparison to you"

I think that even though those women do not have as shapely bodies as mine, anyone can tell they are less athletic. My body is athletic even though I am an hourglass. I am especially good at any kind of dance, so yes I could be a Turkish belly dancer. I have taken belly dancing classes and so I actually do know how to belly dance. You can incorporate belly dancing moves into any other dance almost. However, some are too provocative and should only be kept in the bedroom.

"Kristin Kreuk is only 26. She is barely aging, she just started if even. Kristin Kreuk is practically aneorexic in those photos. That is why she looks like crap."

I didn't imply Kreuk is aging when I said she is maturing. She is losing the girlishness of her late teens and early twenties.

Now we see her "real" adult self. Just like Brooke Shields some people lose their appeal when they mature. Brooke became far too masculine, and in the case of Kristin, her bi-racial traits now make her look like a space alien in some photos, just like Gemma Ward.

Anorexia doesn't give you non-white facial traits, and those are the things that now make her unattractive. She is less attractive because she is bi-racial, not because she is slim. Her slimness bring forth her Asian traits more, though.

"What do Romanian Gypsies have to do with me having an oval face?"

You are Romanian, have a hooked/Roman nose, and you make yourself the topic of discussusion.

It is relevant to point out that there is a very strong gypsy element in many Romanians. You said that the fact that you are fair skinned and have an oval face shape proves you are white, or "caucasian", as you put it.

That is incorrect, as I have shown it does not prove a thing. Many Romanian gypsies look just like you. Your hooked/Roman nose is very much in line with the gypsy look, since they have Indian blood.

One in ten Romanians is a gypsy.

That is the official figure. The unofficial one is most likely a lot higher.

As my photos have shown there are many ordinary Romanians who have clear gypsy traits, and there is obviously race mixing, which is inevitable when over one in ten is a gypsy there.

Even someone who doesn't possess those traits can carry those genes and give them to the next generation.

emily you really surprise me with your attitude, i think you have issues that you need to get help for
emily said Many Romanian gypsies look just like you. Your hooked/Roman nose is very much in line with the gypsy look, since they have Indian blood.
even Indians have straight upturned noses

Photobucket

i am using peter as an example...off course there are others
peter really got to you because he proved you wrong and all you did was demean his skin color
good going!

He never proved me wrong since I am not wrong. A huge, hooked nose is a trademark of the Indians. There are always exceptions, but an exception does not change the rule.

Godis;

"I think that even though those women do not have as shapely bodies as mine, anyone can tell they are less athletic. My body is athletic"

Godis:

Yes, anyone can see that goddess..excuse me..godis is more shapely and far more athletic than these girls.

"You are Romanian, have a hooked/Roman nose, and you make yourself the topic of discussusion"

I don't understand why you keep accusing me of having a hooked nose. First I had a ugly broad round face,I proved that wrong with the photos. Well, now I MUST have a hooked nose. Emily, dear, I would post hundreds of photos of my nose, but I can't because there is no way I am posting photos of my face on this site, or any of my most identifying features. That gives away too much information, I'm sorry. It's very tempting to prove you wrong once again, but my face is too personal.

I understand that it would be convenient for you if I did have a hooked nose. If I don't have a hooked nose, than I am probably just as attractive if not more attractive than the average Nordic woman. I personally believe I am more attractive than the average Nordic woman. Simply because I was indeed just blessed with good genes. I am not 100% positive about how masculine or feminine I am because I clearly have high testosterone levels, but my body and face show no indication whatsoever I am masculine. My face throws me off even more so. It's what makes me look 14 instead of my real age. People always tell me there is so much cuteness in my face. Honestly, I wish I'd be called beautiful or sexy, but no it's always "cute" ugh...

Anyways, my nose is not hooked Emily. From the side it is straight but still soft. I showed you it is a lot like Katherine Heigl. I explained to you before that I really resemble Katherine Heigl, and I think the photo of my face shape now proves that. Here is a pin up cartoon I resemble.

Photobucket

I think you should be getting the idea of how I look. I don't have a hooked nose honey.

Also, why do you keep implying that I am a gypsy? Even if I were a gypsy, by the way I look, I wouldn't care. I have no negative features you can associate with gypsy. Who cares that 1 in 10 Romanians have gypsy blood. I am simply not 1 in 10. If I had any gypsy blood it would have to be so far back it is untraceable because I know my ancestry extremely far back.

Besides, I don't know where you got your statistics from. Mixing with gypsies is extremely frowned upon in Romania. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, however it is discouraged by society there. However, like I said before, I garauntee you if you ever go to Romania you will come across at least one just absolutley stunning gypsy girl or guy. Some of them have such exotic features that are so beautiful.

I am Romanian basically. I am positive I have Roman ancestry. I may have some Turkish ancestry but I am not sure, they took over Romania a long time ago and stuff happened. Nothing I can trace, but I assume most Romanians were affected? Although I come from Northwestern Romania which was far less affected. I have a little bit of Hungarian ancestry. I am half German.

That is what I am and I think that makes a hell of a girl. I am much more attractive than the average female. I do get noticed a lot. I could be in movies and stuff like that.

However, none of that stuff makes you happy. Being beautiful doesn't make anyone happy.

I'd also like to add that I truly do believe white women age worse. Why is this so hard to believe? White pale skin is most sensitive to the sun. Who cares? I know I'm going to age fine. My parents are aging well, my grandma has aged well and I am taking care of my skin. Putting on sunscreen, using natural moisturizers, etc.

Emily,

I am more athletic than those women. Anyone that can intuitivley recognize an athletic body will understand why. The fact that I weight more and am chunkier than them does not make me less athletic than them. Being in shape and being skinny doesn't alone determine how athletic someone is. Haven't you ever heard of the term "dancer's body"? That's the type of body I have. It's strong and symmetrical and it's just athletic what can I say? I'm not a professional dancer, my mom didn't expose me to dancing. However, I am sure I would be right now if I were. I love it!

Lara Croft has a body type like mine. The artists who thought her up knew very well a woman can be curvy and be athletic as well.

Lara Croft Pictures, Images and Photos

Of course if I were in shape, Lara Croft wouldn't stand a chance lol

And you are so extremely creepy saving my photos on your computer Emily. I cut that out because my wall paper is showing and thats too personal. Now, the world can see it! Damnet Emily, stop being so inconsiderate. I would like to keep things private.

Listen, when I'll lose weight I'll post those photos up and then we can have this debate again. It won't take long.

Of course it may be harder to prove I'm more athletic because with gain weight comes masculization and with weight loss one appears more feminine. But I do think it will still be obvious.

Godis;

"Mixing with gypsies is extremely frowned upon in Romania"

Sure. That's why nearly every other person there seems to look like one.

Give it up, honey. You don't look like Katherine Heigl and you don't look like Lara Croft, and no, you are not in any way, shape or form athletic.

You obviously have some deep mental problems and difficulties with the truth. You have provided comic relief, I give you that. I think you ought to take Barberella's advice and seek professional help. Living in a dream world and envying the beautiful is never a good idea.

"I showed you it is a lot like Katherine Heigl. I explained to you before that I really resemble Katherine Heigl, and I think the photo of my face shape now proves that."

Yes, a covered face, showing nothing of the face itself, proves resemblance..in your little world.

"Lara Croft has a body type like mine."

Uhm..sure. Not that anyone else sees it. She is a cartoon figure, by the way. Who cares. She is as much reality to you as your other delusions.

"I would like to keep things private."

Yes, obviously. That is why you posted your photos here.

No wonder you can't get a man. I bet they run for cover as soon as they hear you talk. lol You are so pathetic it is almost pitiful.

Alright Emily, I found some photos from just a couple months ago when I was like 10lbs lighter, but still slightly overweight. As you can see I still have some belly fat, my waist isn't as pronounced, but I am clearly athletic.

Photobucket

Photobucket

Photobucket

You're so lame. You are still going to go on about how I am a gypsy. Funny girl.

I'm a bit burned on my chest, don't make fun I spent like weeks trying to tan.

and I am in an awkward position in the second one, i'm hunching my shoulders over they look a little large and so does my waist, but its the best I could do. I never did learn how to pose for photos.

Excellent, godis. That is a very nice figure, feminine and curvy. You sure did put on a lot of weight in just a couple of months. Be a sport and how us a recent photo of you in that necklace and the belt, with the word "godis" written on it, like before.

Also, in order to tell race you have to provide a picture of your face, godis. You're the funny one for ignoring this. ;)

Ok, Emily. Will do.

As promised, I'm uploading my photos with the shirt I was wearing and the belt. I don't have the necklace, because that was during spring break when I was visiting my cousin who lives in a tropical area btw. She borrowed that necklace and never gave it back lol so its very far away and not with me.

It looks more like I was 15-20lbs skinnier actually. Either way I lost weight for that in a pretty unhealthy way. I stuck to a strict diet and exercised here and there. The diet or exercise were not the unhealthy part, the fact that I lost it so fast was unhealthy. But, then I gained it all back with some lovely stretch marks that took a while and lots of vitamin E to get rid of. Here they are:

Photobucket

Photobucket

Photobucket

Photobucket

Photobucket

compare to:

Photobucket

Photobucket

I don't think most girls would touch this LOL:

Photobucket

Thanks fo taking the time to post those photos. Quite frankly I found it hard to believe it was the same person, since you wrote that the other photos were taken just a couple of months ago. You sure seem to put on weight fast and easily.

In the photos of you now you are not in shape, and that's why your claims of athletism really seemed very funny. It's true that slimness in itself doesn't prove you are athletic, but it usually goes hand in hand. A lot of body fat "padding" simply isn't characteristic for someone who is athletic, so there really was nothing in those photos that indicated any kind of athletism.

You will have to be careful since you really have a tendency to put on weight, and metabolism will become slower as you get older. A lot of Southern European women are like that. They used to joke and say that Italian girls are slim - until they get married. Kate Winslet is another such type. She has a very good and feminine figure but she has a hard time maintaining it sometimes.

"You will have to be careful since you really have a tendency to put on weight, and metabolism will become slower as you get older. A lot of Southern European women are like that. They used to joke and say that Italian girls are slim - until they get married. Kate Winslet is another such type. She has a very good and feminine figure but she has a hard time maintaining it sometimes."

What you fail to realize is that I am a grand mix of Southern, Eastern, and Northern European DNA. Do not try to link weight issues with a specific race. I doubt Italian women are really known to put on that much weight compared to Northern European women. I actually believe it to be quite the opposite. Right now Britain is having trouble with obese women, hence why the average bra size went up in the past few years. I don't read articles about Italy's obesity problem.

I don't have a tendency to put on weight. I have been underweight for the majority of my life. This is the most I've ever weighed and I still maintain a shape, unlike most women who by this time would be shapeless. I lose weight just as easily as I gain weight, that is what you have failed to comprehend.

I think that it just makes you feel better if you were to believe that I will continue to put weight on and would have a tendency towards being obese. Quite the contrary. If I try even a little I can easily improve my body. I highly doubt that I will put on much more weight because I am planning on losing some. Actually, my mother lost a significant amount of weight after all of her pregnancies even. I don't know if it was intentional or natural, but either way she didn't even seem to have a problem losing pregnancy weight. I am a lot like my mother so don't you worry, I won't be overweight for much longer and plan on staying a healthy weight my whole life. One of my goals from a very young age was to never let myself get past a certain weight and look the best I can as best I can and I will stick to that.

You keep trying to find my faults. Don't worry, I have my faults. I am sure you are happy to hear that. But you wont know them and you won't know if they are physical or otherwise. Everyone has faults. No one is perfect or even close to perfect. There were many times I believed people to be extremely close to perfection physically, mentally, etc. only to find out they were oh so far away.

That is what makes life interesting. If everyone were perfect everyone would be boring.

I had a boyfriend say to me once, "Once you see 1 nice body, you have seen every nice body." That bummed me out. He had a point. There is an ideal body out there. There is a body every man out there wants. On the other hand, once you see a woman with an hourglass shape and big boobs and all the fat in all the right places, you have seen the perfect body and every body you see that is optimally attractive will look just like that one. What is the point? The point is that is boring. It made me feel bad for having an hourglass body. There is relativley little that is interesting about my body. Every woman has something unique or quarky about her body that a man loves. I don't. I have a pretty ideal body, but that is just it. It gets boring. It's fun but sad too, because I know that although I have a nice body there is nothing characteristic about it. I have to provide character in other aspects.

"You will have to be careful since you really have a tendency to put on weight, and metabolism will become slower as you get older. A lot of Southern European women are like that. They used to joke and say that Italian girls are slim - until they get married. Kate Winslet is another such type. She has a very good and feminine figure but she has a hard time maintaining it sometimes."

What you fail to realize is that I am a grand mix of Southern, Eastern, and Northern European DNA. Do not try to link weight issues with a specific European race. I doubt Italian women are really known to put on that much weight compared to Northern European women. I actually believe it to be quite the opposite. Right now Britain is having trouble with obese women, hence why the average bra size went up in the past few years. I don't read articles about Italy's obesity problem.

I don't have a tendency to put on weight. I have actually been underweight for the majority of my life. This is the most I've ever weighed and I still maintain a shape, unlike most women who by this time would be shapeless. I lose weight just as easily as I gain weight, that is what you have failed to comprehend.

I think that it just makes you feel better if you were to believe that I will continue to put weight on and would have a tendency towards being obese. Quite the contrary. If I try even a little I can easily improve my body. I highly doubt that I will put on much more weight because I am planning on losing some. Actually, my mother lost a significant amount of weight after all of her pregnancies even. I don't know if it was intentional or natural, but either way she didn't even seem to have a problem losing pregnancy weight. I am a lot like my mother so don't you worry, I won't be overweight for much longer and plan on staying a healthy weight my whole life even after that pregnancy period. One of my goals from a very young age was to never let myself get past a certain weight and look the best I can as best I can and I will stick to that.

Since I can show you that I have an hourglass figure, I am athletic,and I do have an oval face, you have little negative physical characteristics to associate with me. You keep mentioning a non-existant hooked nose, and now that you see that isn't working you will try to pin the "you're only going to get fatter and be a fat person your whole life" issue. You keep trying to find my faults. Don't worry, I have my faults. I am sure you are happy to hear that. But you wont know them and you won't know if they are physical or otherwise. Everyone has faults. No one is perfect or even close to perfect. There were many times I believed people to be extremely close to perfection physically, mentally, etc. only to find out they were oh so far away.

That is what makes life interesting. If everyone were perfect everyone would be boring.

I had a boyfriend say to me once, "Once you see 1 nice body, you have seen every nice body." That bummed me out. He had a point. There is an ideal body out there. There is a body every man out there wants. On the other hand, once you see a woman with an hourglass shape and big boobs and all the fat in all the right places, you have seen the perfect body and every body you see that is optimally attractive will look just like that one. What is the point? The point is that is boring. It made me feel bad for having an hourglass body. There is relativley little that is interesting about my body. Every woman has something unique or quarky about her body that a man loves. I don't. I have a pretty ideal body, but that is just it. It gets boring. It's fun but sad too, because I know that although I have a nice body there is nothing characteristic about it. I have to provide character in other aspects. Catch my drift?

A woman should embrace what makes her unique and shouldn't try to become the perfect "body". Once she achieves that she is physically boring. There is nothing interesting about her. Her looks will evoke little wonder or thought. At first maybe a bit of mezmerization and then nothing really. I think every woman will want to shift towards an hourglass body, but at the same time every woman should keep something that is characteristic to herself. If you have small breasts why get implants? You can't change them and implants will never be like real breasts. I say embrace your small breasts. Try to find what is attractive about them. If I had small breasts I'd only occasionaley wear a bra.If I wanted to be playful or tempt a guy I'd wear little slinky t-shirts that look as if they could be easily lifted off my body. It would drive him crazy! A girl with large breasts generally has to wear a bra. She can't go on a date with her boyfriend in a little slinky shirt because she'd have to wear a bra, how boring. That's what I hate about big breasts. It's actually harder to be sexy sometimes.

My cousin has small perky breasts and she takes advantage of that look. She doesn't make her breasts appear larger, she emphasizes what is attractive about her small breasts from their shape and perkiness to their low maintenance.If you asked anyone who they think they'd have more fun with in bed me or my cousin they would say my cousin right away. She has a cool laid back look to her. She is low maintenance. She goes skinny dipping, she barely has to cover up because she has little to cover up lol. She has long thin legs, little shoulders, a little waist, a little butt and little boobs. How can I be envious of her? Because she takes these things and makes them work to her advantage. She knows how to give her body sex appeal, even though it shouldn't be very appealing theoretically, it is appealing. She has tons of guys after her, even though she isn't trashy or a tramp. She taught me so much about what truly makes a woman attractive. It is the attitude, the charm, the way a woman works with what God has given her. Period. In the end sex appeal is all in the mind. My cousin has a beautiful mind and that translates to every cell in her body.

That is what I have learned from her. That is what I tell any other woman. Take what you have and make it beautiful. Don't be fake about it, just emphasize the good parts. And remember most of it is in the mind.

"Also, in order to tell race you have to provide a picture of your face, godis. You're the funny one for ignoring this. ;)"

Forget it, I am NEVER posting my face on here. Do you think I'm stupid? Once I post my face on here my identity will forever be known. Even if I remove the photos you would have them saved on your computer forever.

You should know you will find nothing extraordinary about my face and that I am indeed what I say I am. A Romanian Hungarian German TurkishOttomanEmpirish?+God knows what else? Figure out what that looks like. lol

link | Submitted by Visitor on Sun, 08/09/2009 - 05:58.

"You should know you will find nothing extraordinary about my face and that I am indeed what I say I am. A Romanian Hungarian German TurkishOttomanEmpirish?+God knows what else? Figure out what that looks like. lol"

The Turkish ottoman empire stretched so far including southern and central europe that it compromised people of various racial origons and many of the ancient turkish tribes had migrated to parts of india so you would need to be more specific when you say "TurkishOttomanEmpirish". Are you saying you believe you have turkish blood?

Godis you have a nice physique it looks to be in the feminine range where in the femiine range im not sure but it looks either to be above average feminine or perhaps in the normal to feminone range.

Godis, from one woman to another, you have an awesome figure - in ALL your pics - 20 pounds on or off.

As for this:

"He never proved me wrong since I am not wrong. A huge, hooked nose is a trademark of the Indians. There are always exceptions, but an exception does not change the rule."

.................

Wrong. Actually a prominant and slightly hooked nose was once a characteristic of "classical Indian beauty" in old poetry, but NOT something we all had - just wished for.

Peter's nose is found all over the sub-continent. We have all kinds of noses. All kinds.

I am still partial to old concepts of "classic Indian beauty" (blame my grandmother) - I like strong, prominant and slightly hooked noses. Unfortunately the only Indians who seem to have that on any consistent basis are Punjabis.

Peter, are you Desi? At first glance I thought you were middle-eastern.

I go away for a weekend, I come back and now it appears that this site is now all about Godis, and her figure? Godis, you think Emily's creepy? You're the one who is constantly now, it appears, posting pics of yourself, but, of course, you want your privacy...hmmm

This site's not (or shouldn't be) about one particular commentator and HER own self, what difference does it make if you cut you're wallpaper out of your photo? Narcisistic much?

I guess you need reassurance from people on this website that you're feminine and attractive, don't people compliment you in real life?

This is just getting weird, I don't even know if I care to come back here because it's just not a normal discussion at all anymore, it's Godis' "Look at me" site.

I understand that you were asked to post the photos, but every post, in the last 3 days was about you...pretty much

Yes, we understand you're curvy, and feminine.

Is there any possible way, we can talk about, oh lets say....the topics? Ever again?

Emily is right about women of your national origin putting weight on, and you say it's the other way around.

I'm 6 years older than you, 5'5", and weigh 115 lb.

Bra size 32C,34D, dependant on manufacturer

waist 23.5"

hips 35.5"

shoe size 5 or 6

Yeah!!! Now it's all about me....

(Now do you see how ridiculous it looks, to read descriptions like this?)

Emily is right, you're not athletic, and women of your national origin DO tend to put on weight, you give way too much personal information, things that aren't relative to your looks, and that is the truly creepy thing, things that are too personal. Things about your romantic/sex life, for example. And countless other things.

Hi, I'm Barberella (Veronicka), and I'm 5'5", 114 lbs. My bra size is a 32c, or 34D, depending in the manufacterer. My shoe size is a 6, and my ring finger , which is shorter than my index finger, is a size 4. My waist is 23", and my hips are 35". I'm slender, medium hieght, light green eyes, that are more blue around the pupil. My hair is a dark, reddish blond.

The point of that, was to say that "um, who cares?"

I don't have to prove it's true. I get a great deal of positive feedback in real life, on a regular basis.

Emily's never had to post her photos, and for some reason, I totally believe that she looks like she says. Pretty, confindent girls don't have to seek attention and approval like you are doing.

Should I talk about myself some more?

I find it so funny how I am the one being called a Narcissist, when Emily is the one whom from day one has posted countless arguments as to why HER Sweden has the most beautiful women on Earth.

Of course, Emily is Nordic, and she argues that Nordics are the most attractive people on average and that no other Caucasian sub-race can compete. How is this not narcissistic? How is she not showering herself and those like her with compliments every time she posts something on here? On top of that Emily degrades others in the process. At least I do not degrade whole countries like she does!

I posted my photos up for various reasons. One reason was to prove to Emily that I have absolutley nothing to be jealous about. I am attractive on my own, and there is no reason I argue with her based on envy of the Nordic race. I know very well where I get my looks from, it would be quite obvious to anyone who met my 100% Romanian mother as well.

My other reason is to hear Erik's opinion as to why I look the way I do, but am not feminine in many other ways. I don't know if I have high estrogen levels, but I do know that during fetal development I had high testosterone levels which is the reason my index finger is significantly shorter than my ring finger, something common among men. My finger lengths are not in the normal range for women, but for men. Why is that? I would assume a woman that was exposed to high testosterone levels at any time should not have an hourglass shape, with fat in the right places, with at least a C cup, etc. Get the drift? Something isn't adding up here...

I have asked other questions, ones not related to myself on this site. I, unlike Emily, am able to admire the beauty of those not like myself. I admire Asian eyes. I like epicanthal folds. I can see many types of beauty. Maybe this has to do with the fact that I am an artist, and artists can see things in a way ordinary people can't, just like a mathematician, for example, can see patterns where most people don't, but I really don't think I am taking a long shot by saying that one could find breath taking beauty outside of the Nordic race. Also,since when has beauty become a product? Would everyone be happy if every woman was basically the same with slight customizations for each man?

On another note I find it hilarious how now I am "Southern European and Latin" where before I was an "Eastern European". Is this because it is now more convenient to refer to me that way, as it is easier to associate me with women who allegedly gain weight easier? Because if you said this about Eastern European women, then everyone would laugh in your face. But no, now the fact that I am Eastern European has mysteriously disappeared. Instead I am now not associated with Slavic broad faced women, but with fat Latin women. It is interesting how facts are presented in a different manner for the convenience of the points you try to make Emily and Barberella...

Barberella:

What is the point of telling me you are six years older than me and weigh less? Who cares? Why are you and Emily so desperatley focusing on weight? My focus is not on weight, but my body shape. Weight is something that can be changed, body shape is not. Besides, I look good fat or skinny. Why the rush to be skinny when I look damn good fat as well? I can be comfortable either way and can change my weight like I change clothes, depending on how I feel about myself because I look good either way. I understand as I get older I'll gain weight easier, but I don't see that as a problem for myself in the future. No one in my immediate or extended family has weight issues. No one.

Besides Barberella, I have to post personal information such as my eye color because my biggest argument for why Romanians can be just as attractive as Nordics is because I as a Romanian am just as attractive as a Nordic. I, myself, am the biggest proof for this.

"Pretty, confindent girls don't have to seek attention and approval like you are doing."

What you fail to understand is in the end none of this is for your approval. You fail to understand the psychology I am using on you. Hopefully it will wake you up to reality and take you out of your denial

That is your denial that a woman who is not Nordic cannot be beautiful in every way...

sorry I meant to write can, not cannot

And I am not saying that features shifted towards Northern European are not the ideal. They truly are. However, why do we say shifted towards Northern European? I believe that Northern Europeans on average exhibit these well balanced features, but why claim they are theirs? I believe these features are attractive because they are middle features. Well balanced and proportional. Northern Europeans hold a monopoly on these features, however, as someone else mentioned before, just because someone wants more balanced features it does not mean they are tyring to look Northern European.

Similarly, I believe a true beauty is one who is overall balanced but has a feature that is off. A feature that evokes wonder and interest, that beautifully blends into what it seems it should not blend into, and at the same time remains strong, unique, and is characteristically hers.. Many of us yearn for such a feature.

"Emily is right,you're not athletic"

How can you possibly know that? My body does have athletic features, but even if it didn't, all you would have is your assumptions but you could never possibly know how athletic I was until you have seen me perform feats requiring athleticism.

Also, my sex drive is important, because supposedly pretty women with hourglass figures never think about sex.LOL

One more thing to add:

Even if I did need approval it would not equate to me being unattractive.

If the most beautiful woman on Earth were to exist, she too could be convinced she is not beautiful or inadequate.

I would also like to note that the only true reason I was posing as a girl in distress is to get a certain response from Erik. If I were to ask my questions any other way,
I feel Erik may not respond in the manner I wish for him to respond. This is because I am usually very accusing on this website, so naturally Erik would respond in a different manner if I were to ask my personal questions in the way I usually adress Erik on this site. He actually may not respond at all actually. I'm not saying this would work, but I am naturally psychologically manipulative. Honestly, most of the times I don't even try. This doesn't mean I am an overall dishonest person though. It is simply the way I analyze people and situations. Everyone is to a certain extent manipulative like this. No one can't tell me that when they were younger and they wanted something they didn't ask in a nicer or different manner than they would usually ask. Unfortunatley, since Barberella and Emily keep accusing me of having self-esteem issues, I have to completley diminish this act. I, like any other person will have issues with myself but not to the extent you two, Emily and Barberella, believe me to have or to the extent I had led on,on this site.

And no one is questioning that Emily is attractive. I believe she is an attractive woman. I admitted many times that Nordic women are on average more attractive than other women, so Emily has the benefit of the doubt.

I don't think Emily is the way she is because she is unattractive. An unattractive woman would not post photos of skinny tanned bleach blonde barbie type women to prove how attractive women like her, Nordic women, are. Naturally,I believe Emily to be somewhat similar to the photos of the women she posts, and therefore logically she must be attractive. Even if she were not like the photos of the women she posts, she is confident enough in her looks to post these photos. However, I think Emily believes that the world is against the Nordic race and it is her job to defend them to the bone. I agree to a certain extent. It seems everything "white" people do is wrong. Then, especially here in the United States, everyone but white people get exceptions. An average white person will not get into a university as easily as a below average African American person will for example. This is because every sytsem these days is designed to pay for the white man's past mistakes it seems. However, to a certain extent, this doesn't work. No white person is responsible for what their ancestors have done, and it doesn't make sense to make a right with two wrongs. The system needs to be changed, I agree.

There is nothing wrong with helping minorities. It is understandable that these communities have a hard time advancing because even today there is prejudice and racism. However, the way we are solving this problem is not working. Clearly.

Similarly, now there is prejudice and racism from both sides. It is true that a anyone else can be proud of their race except the white person. Hopefully all that will change. Everyone should be proud of who they are and why they are what they are. However, taking it to a certain extent is just letting your ego run your life. The ego is a very primitive thing and exists for very small and specific purpose. It should not be allowed to grow beyond that.

link | Submitted by A Perfect 10 on Sun, 08/09/2009 - 21:11.
.................

"Wrong. Actually a prominant and slightly hooked nose was once a characteristic of "classical Indian beauty" in old poetry, but NOT something we all had - just wished for."

The Northern muslim kashmiris and the Pashtun/Pathan tribes of north west frontier of pakistan have the craved for features and beauty the south asians (india/pakstan) admire.

"The Northern muslim kashmiris and the Pashtun/Pathan tribes of north west frontier of pakistan have the craved for features and beauty the south asians (india/pakstan) admire."

Ever been there? I can assure you that I do not crave for the features of most Pakis and Kashmiris I've met. However, there are some of them that are very good looking, just like you get some very good looking people everywhere in the world, but most people look just sort of "OK" at best.

My Indian ideal is the SOUTH Indian - Sendhi Ramamurthy. He has beautiful chocolate skin and does not have a hook nose, neither does John Abraham, another Southie Hottie. However, Hritik Roshan, who has a strong almost hook nose is also good looking. Perhaps he has some Pashtun in him as well. Shah Rukh Khan claims Pathan blood, and no, he's NOT hot looking.

I like Punjabi sardars with their long hair and poetic features.

Ever been there? I can assure you that I do not crave for the features of most Pakis and Kashmiris I've met. However, there are some of them that are very good looking, just like you get some very good looking people everywhere in the world, but most people look just sort of "OK" at best.

No need to assure me I never asked for your assurance.

My Indian ideal is the SOUTH Indian -

Thats Good enough for you then I hope.

The aesthetics of the eyebrows 08/10/2009 - 10:56

by A Perfect 10 link

''Ever been there?''

I dont need to go there when I have seen enough of them to know what they look like and I have a good idea what they look like.

Godis, I meant no offense, but an ATHLETIC person does not carry the extra weight that you do.

Yes, you do look good now, but looks aside, what about your overall health. You're only 20, and if you don't get more active, pretty soon, you won't look as good, if you continue to gain weight.

I am an athletic person, I go to a gym 4x per week and play volleyball on a league twice a week. After telling you my height and weight, I think it's safe to say that athletic women tend to look more like that, than as someone who looks like they're 15 lbs. overweight, even if you do still look good.

Saying that you only need to cut out softdrinks, but don't need to exercise is false. At 5'3", you will need to be more careful, and vigilant, if for nothing more than the sake of your health. Even if you think you look "damn good" as a "fat" person, your word, by the way, not mine, an attractive 20 year old girl, like yourself, has to be careful, if the propensity is already there for weight gain. You say you want to have kids, you'll have to get into better habits now, or you will really have weight issues then.

For the record, I don't think you're fat, but you're not athletic either. And "how do I know that?", as you asked. By the pics of yourself that you chose to show. That's not fat, but NOT ATHLETIC, either.

And don't do the skinny thing backlash on me, I work hard, and I'm slender but also feminine. I have a WHR of .66 and a BMI of 20.6.

I like fealing healthy, as well as looking it, I'm closer to 30 now, than 20, and I believe that MY, not your, overall quality of life is enhanced by the physical activity that I so enjoy.

Hope I've clarified. You have a lovely pysique, even now, but you're on the borderline, and you've even said that you'd already realized it. Sorry, I didn't realize you'd take it so personal. But, it was your decision to post your own pics, and people, whether you like it or not, will give their opinions because the pics are there, by YOUR decision.

And Godis, I don't "fail to realize the psychology that you're using" on me. Nope, your posts are pretty simple. I fail to realize NOTHING! Got that?

And one more thing I'm interested in, is your nose "Roman, with a bump" (your words), or does it look like Katherine Heigl's? You do realize that those two types look nothing alike.

I hope...

"Hopefully it will wake you up and take you out of your denial."
WHAT DENIAL IS THAT, GODIS?

That athletic girls are also 20 lbs. overweight, or something else?

If anyone's in denial, it's you.

Anytime you think that you can somehow "use psychology" on me, and that I fail to understand the simplicity of your language, mentality, and than I think, it's you, who again, has to look at denial.

Whatever Godis, peace, and by the way, people really don't want to know all about your personal life. :)

IT WAS EMILY, NOT ME, WHO SAID THAT ROMANIANS WEREN'T BEAUTIFUL. I POSTED SOME PHOTOS OF SOME VERY LOVELY PICS OF ROMANIANS, REMEMBER?

DON'T TAKE YOUR ANGER ABOUT EMILY OUT ON ME, WE ARE TWO DIFFERENT PEOPLE, GET IT???!!!

"Of course, Emily is Nordic, and she argues that Nordics are the most attractive people on average and that no other Caucasian sub-race can compete. How is this not narcissistic?"

Just because I am Nordic I can't be right, you mean? You simply cannot stop making a fool of yourself, can you? You say you are manipulative, well, that certainly is true. Anyone reading your posts here sees what kind of person you are.

It is not narcissistic expressing admiration for Nordic beauty. If I own a Ferrari would it make it any less valid to say I think it is the most beautiful car, on average? Is that opinion suddenly useless? Just because you possess something of value it doesn't make you disqualified to have an opinion.

It is not exactly MY opinion, only, it is the opinion of a vast majority of people who have been to my country, and know for a fact what we look like here.

Swedes simply are an extremely beautiful people. I would say that even if I wasn't Swedish. The fact that I am does not make my statement any less valid since people can verify that for themselves.

I don't really care what envious women think. Their own words and immature behaviour here reveal them for what they are, envious, self-obsessed and insecure. This site addresses femininity and beauty, and I try to stick to the topic, even though some find it impossible to write here without turning the focus on the posters and on themselves. Obsessive, immature self-analysis interests no one.

To appreciate beauty is not narcissisim. I don't go on and on about my own looks, like some here. I don't need to. A narcissist however NEEDS to do that..and constantly. The attention HAS to be on them personally, in some way or form.

I can appreciate beauty of another type than the Scandinavian one, and have shown that many times here, so your endless false claims godis, doesn't change that fact. Romanian and Turkish beauty are not high on my list, though, which hardly makes me unique. I'm sure there are beauties there too, but I just don't think the average is that high.

When it comes to ultimate beauty, yes, I do think it is usually and most often seen in Northern Europe, and in particular in Scandinavia, not because people are necessarily more beautiful here than in other parts of Northern Europe, but because the sheer NUMBER of beautiful people - the average - is unusually high here.

You can find gorgeous beauties everywhere in an instant here, both men and women. I have never experienced that anywhere else, quite frankly. Saying that doesn't make me narcissistic, it simply makes me in agreement with a huge number of other people.

Here is one guy's perception of Swedish women. There are countless similar stories;

"Growing up, I’ve always heard about hot magnificently beautiful Swedish girls are supposed to be. Blond beauties that are second to none…except perhaps the Spanish girls if that’s more your thing. Regardless, I didn’t know how true that really was. I’ve been studying and living in Copenhagen, Denmark for the last few months and there are beautiful girls everywhere. A few weeks ago I went to the hot new club, Celsius, and I have never seen anything like it. Attractive girls (and good looking men, I’m confident enough to say) were everywhere. I had never seen anything like it.

Until Now! I got off the plane in Stockholm, Sweden today and was kind of tired, but determined to go out on a Saturday evening. I am by myself at this point, and don’t know where to go, but based off my Internet research and the not-so-helpful hostel staff, I figure out the two main areas to go. Up north, near my accommodations, are the high-end clubs, with strictly enforced dress codes and large cover fees. Well, I hate paying cover for places that could suck, and all I have with me are blue jeans and my Nike Air Max 360s (the most comfortable shoes ever), and so I head to the south of town. Much to my delight, there are numerous clubs and bars in this area that seem to be doing well, and I was never asked about my clothes in the four places that I went into during the night.

Which brings me to the purpose of this post. Swedish girls are official the most beautiful in the world. I’m going to Russia in a few days, and if they can change my mind then great, but I highly doubt it. Every other girl is just absolutely stunning. On my way home I saw a girl who didn’t appear to be very cute; she was skinny and had large glasses and a strange haircut. Yet, as I saw her, I realized that she was in fact beautiful if she just took care of some of those issues.

I simply don’t have words to say. The girls in Denmark and in Norway (I was in Oslo last weekend) are amazing. There is no denying that. However, I think that the Swedish girls may be just a step above the rest. Now this isn’t to say that I’d prefer to live in Sweden. One thing I’ve gotten used to in Denmark is the fact that clubs don’t open until about midnight and the party doesn’t end until the sun has risen…literally. Here in Stockholm many of the bars and clubs close at 1am (unheard of in Copenhagen) or maybe at 3am.

As for myself, I did end up making friends with a girl named Josephine, but I didn’t make the right moves and/or she was drunk and anyways, I got bored and left the table that I was invited to hang out at (she had some nice friends). Overall, I can’t say the night was great, but it wasn’t horrible either. I’ll be honest, I’d love to have a story about hooking up with a Swedish girl to bring back to my friends when I come home, but in reality, it doesn’t matter that much. More than anything, I realized that beauty is actually common, and that I need to work on my approach anxiety a whole lot more if I want to be as successful with women as I both want and think I can become.

Barberella:

Why do you continue to focus on my weight? I usually am active, but for a student that stays up at night consuming soft drinks before a big test, and on top of that works until 2:00 in the morning many times, being active isn't an option. I have a busy schedule. I can stay active, but I chose to sacrifice that for a good grade on a test instead. Don't worry about me. I have mentioned before that no one in my family has EVER had weight issues. It simply is not a problem for me. I have gained 20lbs with extreme habits. It's not like I had some potato chips and MAGIC I gained 20lbs. No. I have extreme and unusual habits. I should be 50lbs overweight, but I am not thanks to my high metabolism. I doubt pregnancy will be an issue for me. As I have said before my mother lost weight after each pregnancy with no problem. I am athletic. I excel at dancing, track, and believe it or not, soccer. I've picked this up from high school gym classes that required us to do these things. I always excelled in these areas and I have been told I excel. It really is quite obvious. I don't care if you don't believe I am athletic.

I do wonder why you and Emily are so worked up all of a sudden? Ever since I have posted photos of my body you both are working VERY hard to find any faults you can. Honestly, whats the deal? Why are you getting so worked up over those photos? Is it because they prove something you do not want proven? Yes, to a certain extent I do believe you are Emily. Sorry, don't want to, but I do.

I am attractive and you don't like that. Period. Most Nordic women, as beautiful as they are on average, do not have a figure like mine. Period.

I think what you have just realized is that it doesn't matter who is attractive ON AVERAGE. In the end, it comes down to who is attractive individually. You and Emily are lucky girls. You have the benefit of the doubt that you are attractive. I guess I'm even luckier though, because according to Emily I should be an "ugly round broad faced brown eyed brown haired hooked nose fat Latin SouthEastern European Romanian!"

Haha. Guess I'm one lucky bitch if us Romanians are like that huh?

Emily,

If you are not Barberella, I have one thing to say to you:

Get over it!

Get over your ego.

link | Submitted by Godis on Tue, 08/11/2009 - 02:25.

''I think what you have just realized is that it doesn't matter who is attractive ON AVERAGE. In the end, it comes down to who is attractive individually.''

link | Submitted by Erik on Fri, 05/08/2009 - 00:12.
Regarding self-esteem related to looks (body esteem), if you were to ask Europeans whether they have a higher opinion of their looks than those of other ethnic groups, then the majority will indicate a higher opinion of European looks, but if you were to survey how individuals feel about their own personal looks, then European will on average have lower regard for their own personal looks than those in a number of populations,
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As Erik stated the majority of europeans will indicate a higher opinion of the looks of there ethnic group but on an individual basis with respect to there own looks many of them dont express the same satisfaction that could explain why it appears europeans seem to prefer to talk on ageneral level about the looks of there ethnic group as a wholerather than being independent thinkers. Ofcourse when it boils down to the beauty of people an individual can only be judged individually.

This has turned into a cat fight between Emily, Barbarella and Godis. Ladies, take it outside!

Godis, I don't know where you get the idea that you are "over-weight" in any of your photos. In fact, you might even be under-weight, because the camera adds at least 10 pounds in the photo and YOU STILL LOOK PERFECTLY FINE, THIN, PROPORTIONED AND WONDERFULLY SHAPED.

You have an awesome body and you have absolutely NOTHING to worry about weight wise and you know it. You are just trying to not intimidate the rest of the women here by being humble and saying you are "over-weight".

You already got Barbarella and Emily all jealousy and catty, LOL. Give it a rest!

Next?

Emily and I are two entirely different women, we write and speak differently, I think.

I also told you, if you would read my posts, that I thought you had a great figure, then and even now.

I'm not worked up, Godis, are you insinuating that I'm jealous? I have a very feminine, yet athletic shape myself, as I would think you'd be able to conclude that based on the description of myself that I've given. A recent, and accurate desription.

If you're stating that Northern European women can't be as feminine as you, than it appears we disagree. There are a lot of Nortern European women that are extremely feminine, just because they're not as short, or "voluptuous" as you, doesn't mean that they don't have feminine physiques. The correlates of feminity are low waist to hip ratio, not weight or height itself, as Erik has said many times, as well as saying that Northern European women are more feminine, on average, based on his scientific data, that's presented here.

My self-esteem is fine, Godis, and as far as the athleticism issue... whatever, we'll just agree to disagree about that,as I am not interested in that debate anymore. You see what you see, and then believe what you want to believe. If you don't appreciate my comments on your "athleticism", that I observed, than DON'T POST PICTURES OF YOURSELF, INVITING COMMENTS.

Godis, you have a lovely and feminine figure, weight or not. But you're puting down others now, saying things about N. Europeans that aren't true, once again. And no, I don't have to be Emily to disagree with you about that. What is it with you? Why do you have to believe that two women who happen to agree with some main points here have to be the same woman? I see all kinds of people here that can't stand her, and insult her, but am I to believe that you are all one and the same person? If it sounds absurd, it's because it is.

Oh, and to the "perfect 10 indian goddess", I am not suprised that you would assume jealousy here. Of course an Indian woman is going to "sympathize" with a Romanian girl, and assume that the N. European American girl, and the Scandinavian girl are "jealous and catty". I can assure you, and I happen to agree with you, Godis looks great. I have enough confidence in my looks to say that I think she looks great before and after. But don't make such assumptions. You just invited yourself into this "catfight", by insulting Emily and I, saying that we're envious. I can't speak for Emily, as we are two entirely different women, that live on two different continents, seperated by that little pond called the ATLANTIC OCEAN, but I wouldn't assume jealousy here. It's the general attitude of Ms. Godis, and what appears to have been "jealousy" on her part.

Sorry Godis, if I've just insulted you by taking the liberty of calling you jealous. I think I just proved my point. The point being that assuming one is jealous because of disagreement is usually incorrect.

I happen to have enough self confidence to say that Godis has a lovely figure,and myself, being the daughter of a Dutch/Danish(N.German) mother, and an Irish/English father, I am not a pure blood Nordic, but have enough confidence to agree with Emily about the beauty of Scandinavian, particularly, Swedish, women. I have no issues or envy here. I take issue when people, because of THEIR own issues, take liberties and make incorrect assumptions of their own. Like assuming that people are envious for example.

By the way, I can't wait to see what Emily, the SWEDISH GIRL WHO IS NOT ME, has to say about being accused of being jealous!

These are lovely Romanian girls, NOT cherry picked, meaning that I did not have to look far and wide to find them, as you can see, Emily and I are most likely one and the same because I doubt that she'd post this, do you agree, Godis?

sisters

Hot Romanian Girls

Romanian girls

When looking at pictures of Romanian girls, I've noted the diversity in the coloring, and features, as you can see above. Though these two girls coloring will probably darken a bit, at least their hair, they are very light eyed, and have fine features, though I would not describe them as "Nordic" looking.

florina

romanian-girl

As you can see, I am very appreciative of all kinds of beauty. I am a bit more relaxed about this than Emily, being an American, the average person is not going to be as beautiful as Nordic women, who I do believe are the most beautiful on average. But, I find the looks of these women, and the two little girls to be (I hope) fair.

Me

Girls Aloud

Girls Aloud

Irish Girl

Northern European, but a little south of Scandinavia...and an accurate representation of my ancestry. Hope this clears things for you, Godis, Barberella DOES NOT equal Emily. I do happen to think a lot of Emily, she's had the fortitude to weather the verbal attacks made on her, and is intellectually honest.

I didn't mean to post the black and white twice, I meant to post this:

Cute Irish Blondes

"By the way, I can't wait to see what Emily, the SWEDISH GIRL WHO IS NOT ME, has to say about being accused of being jealous!"

Barberella, try not to take obvious troll baits. I don't for a second believe she thinks we are the same, and she is obviously toying with you, as she basically admitted here before. She is that kind of person that would pretend to think something just to see the effect that would create. Some people have nasty personalities like that. You can't assume she will be honest with you.

What can I say? Jealousy of godis? Well, anyone saying that must be used to a rather low standard, and/or not be particularly good-looking themselves.

I guess everything is relative, and you will see and appreciate things through the eyes of what you are used to.

A Perfect 10 Indian Goddess:

Thank you! I am happy with my body and I have my insecurities but I am thankful for the fortunes that I have such as great family and friends and health! Again, thanks for the compliments, it takes someone who is secure with themselves to be able to acknowledge others like that!

And although I have my suspicions that Emily is jealous, because I proved her wrong, I don't tell people what they feel,unlike Emily. I will never tell Emily she is jealous. However, I will admit I have my suspicions:)

Barberella:

I am sorry but I am not "toying" with you on this one. I have a very hard time even diffrientiating between you and Emily. Before I explain though I'd like to say one thing:

The photos you posted of "attractive" Romanians featured no actual attractive Romanians. Really.

So, here's whats going on in my head right now about why I think you and Emily are alike:

Well, I feel like you have subtle ways of insulting me and getting a point across that often resembles insults Emily would have mentioned earlier. Like when you said this:

"If you're stating that Northern European women can't be as feminine as you, than it appears we disagree. There are a lot of Nortern European women that are extremely feminine, just because they're not as short, or "voluptuous" as you, doesn't mean that they don't have feminine physiques. The correlates of feminity are low waist to hip ratio, not weight or height itself, as Erik has said many times, as well as saying that Northern European women are more feminine, on average, based on his scientific data, that's presented here."

What are you trying to prove? I have never said height or weight were correlates of femininity. I have posted photos of my body shape, which is an hourglass, which only 8% of women on planet Earth have. So what I am trying to say is that Northern European women may be the majority of that 8%, I am included in that 8% and I doubt that the majority of the women in Scandinavia or Northern Europe ARE included in that 8%. So although more women from Northern Europe have hourglass figures, very few women in general have that figure. I am one of those few. So, yes I would say that I probably am more feminine than most Nordic women, simply because although they are more feminine ON AVERAGE, it doesn't mean every single one or even the majority are feminine.

You use the words, short and voloptuous to imply that I look bad because I am short and "voloptuous cough cough fat". Your whole paragraph there really revolved around an insult than an actual point because there was no point since I didn't refer to height or weight in any of my posts and their correlation to femininity. BTW: Weight gain actually masculinizes a girl.

I pick up these subtle insults from you disguised as actual arguments or points.

There are many more reasons I think you are Emily:

Similar writing style that has slightly changed since I have mentioned you have similar writing styles.

Similar photos posted for similar reasons.

Arguments that are basically identical. I mean people are allowed to agree but you two just have the exact same arguments.

There are A LOT more elements that you two share from personality to writing styles, etc. I'm not going to go into detail or talk about every incident or post that fueled my suspicions, but if there is something I am good at its psychology and I'm sorry but I just feel too strongly about you two being the SAME person.

I think Barberella is just Emily's nicer alter ego. Emily poses as Barberella in an attempt to make her outlandish arguments more objective.

I would feel horrible if Emily and Barberella were not the same people, but my brain is screaming at me that they are.

So what I am trying to say is that Northern European women may be the majority of that 8%, I am included in that 8% and I doubt that the majority of the women in Scandinavia or Northern Europe ARE included in that 8%

Sorry I typed this out so fast, I didn't word it right.

I am saying that 8% is a small number so only few women from Northern Europe have hourglass figures, and even fewer from other parts of the world. The point is few women from ANYWHERE have hourglass figures. So I think that few Northern European women or women from anywhere else have as feminine a figure as me.

I'd also like to note Barberella that every time you post photos of "attractive" Romanians, you have to post photos of Nordics too. Why are you constantly trying to contrast? You pick out average or below average photos of Romanians, pretend you think they are attractive, than contrast them to better photos of Nordics and try to tell me you are complimenting me when you really are trying to make a point by contrasting ugly or average Romanians to better looking Nordics. You are trying to make a point disguised as a compliment.

I agree the first photos you posted of a Romanian girl featured an attractive Romanian girl. However even then you had to post photos of attractive Nordic women, as if God forbid someone will see those photos of that ONE attractive Romanian girl and think Romanians are more attractive. Just look for yourself, you have to post photos of Nordic women after you post photos of "attractive" Romanian women. And, as everything gets more intense, you post more and more subtle insults disguised as points.

You also mentioned you did not have to cherry pick those photos. You are trying to convince me that you didnt' specifically pick out those photos to really make any point, so they should be a good representation of "attractive" Nordic women. The truth is you specifically picked each photo making sure it featured slightly more attractive women then "Emily's" photos of Romanian women, but still ugly enough to make your point. Which was, "Hey look, I didn't cherry pick these girls, these are your average Romanian girls, see they are pretty or really I'm just saying that to make Godis feel like I am a nice objective person when really I want people to see the contrast of non-cherry picked photos of Romanians and Nordics."

Oh and I can see your reply right now:

Godis you are so twisted and you twist things!

That's going to be your argument. That I am paranoid and I twist things and make them out to be something they are not. The truth is I read inbetween the lines. That's all.

FEEL HORRIBLE GODIS, YOU'RE BRAIN SCREAMS INSECURITY, AND OUTLANDISH PARANOIA.

SORRY YOU DIDN'T FIND MY PICS ATTRACTIVE, THAT'S WHAT THE MAJORITY OF THE MORE ATTRACTIVE ROMANIANS LOOKED LIKE,IF THEY'RE NOT AS ATTRACTIVE AS YOU'D LIKE.....WHAT'S THAT GOT TO SAY OF WHAT YOU THINK OF THE BETTER LOOKING ROMANIANS DISPLAYED ON THAT SITE?

Erik, however, has logs and knows who posts as doppelgangers, and of course, who doesn't. Not that he should concern himself with your bizarre, paranoid delusions, that there's "multiple Emily's" out to get you.

There is no way that a sane, rational, intelligent person could possibly have any kind of conversation, debate, etc, with you. It seems as soon as more than one person disagrees with you here, you start thinking that they're the same. And you haven't yet realized that it's idiocy.

You're obviously NOT so good at psychology. LMAO!!

You take every comment that is not in perfect agreement as an insult. You're constantly lecturing Emily about her ego, but what about yours?

I was, actually, offering up the proverbial "olive branch", and trying to appeal to you, that I'm not Emily, so that one day, maybe we could converse about some real issues...but I see that your maturity level isn't what I thought it was. I'm sorry you felt insulted. That wasn't my intent.

I'm an American, through and through. My father's a war veteran, and you're starting to piss me off. I may agree with Emily, but I'm as patriotic as she is. She loves Sweden, her home country, and I love the USA, mine.

Godis, read the time of this post, guess what time it actually is here? 11:16 EDT, a time zone found in the US. Man, Emily was so right about you, and to think that I might have, at some point, felt she was being hard on you. I see she's been dealing with you here for months. It doesn't take long to tire of you.

I still can't believe your're "good at psychology". Or think you are. That's really what's funny. That you THINK you are.

And I've seen your rants, your calling Emily "whore","cow" and "tard". And your really good at psychology, yep you are. And so mature as well...

I think it's safe to say you need to SEEK psychological services.

STOP BAITING ME, IT SHOWS A LOT OF THINGS ABOUT YOUR CHARACTER, AND NONE OF THEM ARE GOOD.

If there are no good pictures of Romanian women on Photobucket, or Flickr, complain to them, not me.

Emily,

I see what you mean, and I have let her toy with me, she's really beginning to aggravate me. As I've gone through these posts, over the last few months, I see exactly what you mean.

And yes, what you stated about beauty being relative is most certainly true.

Gee, I hope that I don't sound too much like you, and agonize poor Godis' head anymore.

OK, I am no longer responding to her proposterous accusations....lol

I appreciate your input at this site, as well as your honesty. I think people allow themselves to become so inflamed, and fail to see what it is that you're saying. Too bad.

Pages

Click here to post a new comment