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Nasion placement and attractiveness

The nasion is shown below, and can be roughly regarded as the indentation of the nasal bones around where the nose meets the forehead.  It may also be referred to as the radix, sellion or the soft-tissue nasion, though the radix is better conceptualized as the region centered at the nasion and extending to the eyebrows above and mid-eye level below.

The nasion in Nikky Case.

Fig. 1. The nasion.

Mowlavi et al.(1; zip) examined nasion position preference in a sample of white North Americans.  They varied the vertical placement of the nasion as follows.

Nasion vertical position.

Fig. 2. Nasion level (vertical position) at four separate positions: supratarsal fold (ST), ciliary margin of the upper lid (CM), midpupil (MP), and lower limbus (LL).

They also varied the projection of the nasion as follows.

Nasion height.

Fig. 3. Nasion height, as defined by the projection of the nasion beyond the anterior corneal plane, at distances of 7, 10, and 13 mm anterior to the corneal plane.

Male and female judges were asked to rate the 12 combinations for both male and female faces.  Male and female judges preferred nasion projection in both men and women as follows: 10 mm > 13 mm > 7 mm.  Male and female judges preferred nasion vertical position in men at the ST, CM or MP level over the LL level.  The nasion vertical position in women was preferred at ST, CM or MP over LL by the male judges and at CM or MP over ST or LL by female judges.

The following image shows the outline of Marquardt’s mask, which he claims to be the outline of the “ideal” female face.  Note that the nasion in Marquardt’s mask is below the mid-pupil level.  Once again, Marquardt’s mask is shown to be inconsistent with what most people actually prefer.

Marquardt’s Phi mask.

Fig. 4. Marquardt’s Phi mask.  

References

  1. Mowlavi, A., Meldrum, D. G., and Wilhelmi, B. J., Implications for nasal recontouring: nasion position preferences as determined by a survey of white North Americans, Aesthetic Plast Surg, 27, 438 (2003).
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Comments

fivehead. bad taste.

Erik:
Is that everything you have to say in oppose to that mask? When you said that you will address it, I imagined that you will shatter it. Or there is more elsewhere on the site?

8D: The woman does not have a fivehead by a long shot.

Bron: The previous entry showed the shortcomings of Marquardt’s mask with respect to mandibular profile and the next entry shows the mask’s shortcoming in regard to earlobe proportions. As you can see, the outline is also of a masculinized woman, which I have pointed out elsewhere, too. I will have more to say later.

Hey Erik
This is another confusing issue to me. This lady's nose forhead region looks masculine from what i have read here so far. Isn't there supposed to be no gap/angle/space in the forhead-nose continuity?

No offense, I'm half white and half Puerto Rican, but don't white women have the most masculine nasal region? Not due to hormones, but bone structure? Sorry, it just really seems that way. Their noses have the highest bridges and I have seen your nose job section and with all due respect I think what you wrote is crap. True "Nordic" women almost always have high bridges and long noses. This is in no way feminine and more feminine noses would be selected over this. Women that are mixed or more towards central Europe are the ones with a nice nose, not true Nordic women. Thats just the truth. And I know you are going to argue that Nordic women are the most feminine, and I agree. However, they have their shortcomings as well and it doesn't stop with the nose. In my opinion white "Nordic" women are the most attractive overall, but not in every aspect.

"No offense, I'm half white and half Puerto Rican, but don't white women have the most masculine nasal region?"

Another negative comment about white women by this very..Nordic..woman. You really hate them, don't you? LOL

Didn't you just say you were Nordic in another thread and thought of as white trash by New Yorkers? So which is it? Wouldn't it be easier to just tell the truth and stop pretending to be Nordic?

"It's hard to live in the North of the U.S. up in New York coming from the South. I am often stereotyped as a "dumb blonde" or white trash because of my roots"

A half-Puerto Rican and BLONDE?

"I am not jealous or envious of Nordic women since I happen to be one myself."

Right....

This was addressed to Kayla B.

Peter: The forehead-nose junction is smoother in women, and the woman’s doesn’t look masculine, especially because of how it all fits together. More of her face. If the notch at the forehead-nose junction were shallower in her, it would look more feminine, but there are only two ways to achieve this in her: either make the nasal bones project forward or make the forhead retract backward. A retracted forehead would make her look odd, whereas more projecting nasal bones will make the nasals’ projection look more masculine. She is fine as is.

Kayla B.: The more projecting nasal bones of European women are an ethnic feature, not related to masculinity-femininity, and by themselves they don’t present a masculine appearance: Lisa, Amy. You said, “And I know you are going to argue that Nordic women are the most feminine,” but I would not. My argument is that they look more overall feminine on average, not that they are more feminine. The reason is that I am not concerned with sex hormone profiles and sex steroid receptor sensistivity among other factors related to physical femininity as far as this site is concerned.

Erik!
You responded to me :) I am happy to be "talking" to you.
When i first saw the lady's side view picture i noticed her less gracile and hence more "masculine" forehead nose region and the jaw gonial angle. Seeing her front view proves that she has a "stronger" jaw. I didn't say she looks masculine, just those particular areas which i pointed out. I was just wondering if you were going to use a model to show the nasion area, why not use a model with a more smoother/ "feminine" area? I have seen plenty of pictures here.
I have a very similar side profile to this lady in terms of nose forehead region and jaw angle.

Erik, Aesthetically speaking i don't really like her nose from side view. It looks "pushed/stumped" up. Additionally can i suggest some women for the attractive women category? Can they be non white? but Caucasoid?
Also I don't find anything wrong with the lady personally but since this site is about looks and such, i think it is fair that i pointed those things out :)

Peter: Less gracile is not the same as more masculine. Using a model with a more or less gracile nasoglabellar region is irrelevant to the article. The model’s nose is somewhat upturned, but whatever the reason for it, feminization tends to make the nose more upturned, and her nose does not lean toward a masculine look. Posting a list here of women you like would be off-topic. Email names to me if you know of women I could use. They could be of any ethnic group. If I have the time, I could get around to using pictures of non-European women.

Hey Erik,
I simply meant if you were talking about nasion placement and attractiveness and using a model to represent this, why not use someone with a smoother profile...since that is more attractive for females.
There are more aesthetically pleasing ways of having an upturned nose instead of it looking like its been punched up if you know what i mean? Her nose is not bad but i have seen some white people that have noses which seem like they have been pushed up and not in an attractive way.
Erik I am begining to like you...I really like what your trying to promote and your ideas BUT i do feel that you have fallen short in some areas. I would love it if you could include non white women :) It will only serve to make the site more "mass appealing". What i am not saying you do is, use overwhelmingly non white women. Since you are white, you have every right to keep using white women but adding a little "flavor" won't hurt.
Why din't i just e-mail you pictures of women i am thinking about? instead of giving names and you having to look for them.

Hey Erik,
I simply meant if you were talking about nasion placement and attractiveness and using a model to represent this, why not use someone with a smoother profile...since that is more attractive for females.
There are more aesthetically pleasing ways of having an upturned nose instead of it looking like its been punched up if you know what i mean? Her nose is not bad but i have seen some white people that have noses which seem like they have been pushed up and not in an attractive way.
Erik I am begining to like you...I really like what your trying to promote and your ideas BUT i do feel that you have fallen short in some areas. I would love it if you could include non white women :) It will only serve to make the site more "mass appealing". What i am not saying you do is, use overwhelmingly non white women. Since you are white, you have every right to keep using white women but adding a little "flavor" won't hurt.
Why din't i just e-mail you pictures of women i am thinking about? instead of giving names and you having to look for them.

or you could just retract the nasion height and the protruding forehead. That would make everything look smaller and "feminine" and proportional. ME personally, looking at the Marquardt mask it looks like a guy to me. the nose is way too prominent and the forehead is what you would expect to see from a guy. The classic ideal of modern "beauty" is a small nose, but at the same time high. However, not that high. That's not really considered beautiful I think according to our standard of beauty. Remember though, that this mask was devised from fashion models. And fashion models aren't chosen for their faces. The mask itself ideologically is flawed, because if you look at the model on Marquardt's website whom he claims fits the mask perfectly. She really isn't considered prettier than someone like say kristen stewart or emma watson. Who don't fit the Mask nearly as well as her. IF you look at both examples excluding emma watson who isn't known for having a pretty profile. You will notice that their noses are rather small and not nearly as protruding as Marquardt claims "beauty" should be. Kristen's nose height is no more than 10mm. Although, if you look at it from a different angle it'll look like it's even 15mm above. However this is, because her head is turned at an angle. The way to make sure you are looking at someone's nose height. Is too make sure that their eyebrows align with there forehead. If you look at the first model picture on this page, her eyebrows don't align with her brow bone meaning that that isn't her nose height.
Thank You

Hi, This woman in the picture has beautiful nose. Her name is nikki case, check her out on peachyforum.

What kind of weird conclusion is this?
So because a FEW white Americans find those positions of the nasion is more attractive the mask is wrong? WHAT?! Because a FEW people think that way? Don't you get how wrong that is. Until you question not only white but also black Americans, Asian Americans etc. and ask more people, you can't make that conclusion.

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