The transsexual parade otherwise known as the Victoria’s Secret lingerie show: part 6

i agree adriana has a somewhat boyish frame--but not as boytish as the other vs models. here is a candid of her with an ex-fiancee. i also posted a pic of her with her natural hair texture showing--proving she is atleast 1/3 to half black. often time they choose to lighten her skin in shoots, but that isn't a tan. maybe you should compare her to someone of mixed afro/meditterranean descent to see some masculinixation in her face., she is also part asian. i would suggest looking at some west induans, cape verdeans, etc. for that if you have prblems. but is it crazy to compare er to a northern european as she claims to be afro-carib, japanese, and portuguese...--- she is not "half" both her parents aoppear to be fair skinned blacks.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/cocoamama78/adriana032.jpg

http://www.thefashionspot.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=70031&d...

nevermind---she has a masculine physique-

http://img22.imagevenue.com/aAfkjfp01fo1i-29928/loc350/75084_hq04wa8_122_350lo.jpg

Erik:

One of the challenges of this site for me has been to identify in specific terms why faces are/are not masculinized and where they rate on the masculine/feminine scale. As I tend to be more verbal and less visual in how I learn new things, it would help if you could be more specific about faces that are neither overtly feminine nor highly masculine....by spelling things out (to slow learners like me!) more precisely. (Ex: square jaw, high cheekbones, low eyebrows, protruding forehead, etc.)

While I see that Adriana is not particularly feminine, I have trouble identifying why she is masculine in her looks, and would probably (if left to my own devices) categorize her as "average", taking into account her ethnicity.

As to her physique, interestingly, some of her younger photos do depict a curvy shape with a clearly deliniated waist, but I agree that her body type overall (in her more recent photos) is fairly masculine.

While I agree that an above average feminine physique is important in something like lingerie/swimsuit modeling, I would not exclude Adriana from that line of work based solely on her face, which appears to be merely average (to me) but I might find her not feminine enough for something like a beauty pageant, where the face is much more important and relevant.

As for Veronika, LORD HAVE MERCY! If that represented the standard on this site, you would have a much smaller "Attractive Women" section..thankfully for average women like me, women with her physique are few and far between!

actually, i do not find that woman (gigi) attractive in the least. i might even say she is on the unattractive side. very boring face and although she has a feminine body, i don't find her breasts appealing.

when i look at adriana's face, something about it does say "masculine" to me, but for some reason i cannot pinpoint exactly what it is. because you're an expert on all of this, might i ask what exactly it is about her face that makes it seem masculine?

nevertheless, i still consider adriana to be one of the prettiest well-known females out there, even if she does have slight masculinity to her.

and in response to the poster who pointed out that adriana is asian, i am almost sure she is not. i think a lot of that rumor comes from "damage control" when she made a quote that "brazilian women are beautiful because they are of mixed race, unlike the japanese who all look the same".

i think what she really meant to say was that if you are of entirely one ethnicity, you don't have very diverse/exotic looks and therefore you look very plain and similar to everyone else. many people took that quote the wrong way and thought she implied that japanese people all look the same, and so they included in some of her bios that she is of japanese heritage.

i don't think she is even sure herself exactly what ethnicity she is. i am of mixed race too and don't know exactly my entire ancestry.

basically erik--- i think you should start comparing her atleast to someone of mixed african descent--which would apply to most afro americans--who are typically of asiatic, eurpean AND african descent, countless darker hispanics, etc. why do u insit on comparing people who re obviously not white to white women?

kristin, if you've ever visited the "beauty pageants" part of this site, it's obvious that erik insists european women are the most feminine (which i find to be complete bullshit).

I have to agree with madeline: European women are not the most feminine. That almost sounds racist.

And Erik, I really wish you would find a source for your beauty "information" other than pornographic sites.

sorry about the double posts.

What weight? Adriana does not look fat in the least.

Kristin: Only the first woman that Adriana is compared to is a Northern European. Anyway, trying to come up with an ethnicity match in this case is an unnecessary headache because I have to figure out Adriana’s ethnic composition and find feminine women of a similar ethnic composition for starters. The problem is confounded by multiple deviations, some random, from the expected average of parental face shapes when the parents are indigenous to separate continents. You say that Adriana is a third-to-half sub-Saharan African, but judging by her face shape, this appears highly unlikely, and even if it is true, there are surely people having an ethnic composition similar to Adriana’s but ethnically different looking faces that are unambiguously indicative of substantial sub-Saharan African ancestry. I ignored Adriana in the “sexy fashion models?” section because I did not want to deal with an ancestry mess, but since she has to be addressed in the context of a Victoria’s Secret model and this entry is not about a comparison of attractiveness, I can address the masculinity-femininity of Adriana’s appearance by comparing her to women of other ancestries.

As far as Adriana’s skin color goes, I have seen candid and paparazzi pictures of her where she has light skin, i.e., the woman is naturally light-skinned. She can develop a dark tan, but then there are plenty of normally-pasty-white Europeans who can become brown given enough sun.

Sandy: With respect to masculine-feminine variation in face shape, I have spelt things out, in detail, on the “feminine vs. masculine” page; the problem for some people, though I don’t know about you, is the use of technical words/jargon on this page, which cannot be avoided if one is to maintain brevity. A more layperson-friendly approach would involve expanding this page into a multi-page section with a lot more diagrams accompanied by commentary and less jargon, but this requires a lot of work, is not necessary, and I have more pressing needs to attend to for some time to come. Anyway, the three main facial features contributing to the somewhat masculinized appearance of Adriana are her chin (large), forehead bone (brow region masculinized) and nose tip (too wide; minor contribution).

To illustrate, if one were to remove the forehead and chin cues from two of her pictures shown above, then even with an unmanipulated nose, she would start looking normal-to-feminine:

Basically, if you absorb the contents of the “feminine vs. masculine” page, it would take you a few seconds to assess in detail what makes someone masculine or feminine, and you will be able to perform the requisite manipulations mentally instead of having to cut out some details of the face using an image editor.

I agree that Adriana is appropriately described as “average” given her ethnic background, but my point is that the woman is not feminine enough for high-profile lingerie modeling.

Madeline: I agree that Gigi is unimpressive (except for the mammaries and hourglass shape); she looks like a mother. I posted her pictures to mess around with you. On the other hand, I have not argued that European women are the most feminine; the section that you refer to addresses, in part, the masculinity-femininity of physical appearance, which is not to be confused with actual masculinity-femininity, which in turn is something that would need to be assessed in terms of sex steroid profiles, steroid receptors, etc. The arguments in the “beauty pageants” section stand unless you or someone else can refute them.

phred: As far as the sources of the ‘beauty "information"’ go, they are peer-reviewed science and medicine journals, not pornographic sites. It has been necessary to source many pictures from adult-oriented sites but only some of these sources are pornographic sites.

To say that Adriana has gained weight does not mean that she has become “fat”; she has gained weight compared to her slender teenage self.

my pint eric--is that if you took in account her black and asian ancestry--you would see that her having full cheeks and lips is not a sign of feminity as much as ethnicity---and no--normal europeans do not get that tan--- only women of color get the jennifer lopez bronze. here is a pic of my friend--who is black, filipino, and white---and you can compare that to adriana---(although there are tons of lighter skinned blacks in america and s. america with this lineage---tons. its the girlkl all the way to the right---and her face is obviously more feminine than adriana's

http://photos-586.ak.facebook.com/ip002/v13/151/37/8209297/n8209297_3062...

I went over this site, and what is scientific or medical? "Action Girls"? "Domai"? "glamour.cz"?
Maybe you would like to rephrase your statement, because it contradicts the sources I've spotted so far.

phred: You have not seen any skull diagrams, tables, numerical data and citations from peer-reviewed journals on a number of pages within this site? I hope that you are aware that bearing false witness (Exodus 20:16, Deuteronomy 5:20, Luke 3:14) and lying (Proverbs 6:16-19) are sins.

Kristin: Of course, Adriana’s thick lips are not indicative of femininity when her whole-face appearance doesn’t look feminine. This is why I asked people to discern whether there is something masculine about her face notwithstanding her thick lips and non-angular features. Anyway, you are mistaken about Europeans not being able to become brown; many sure can. Here is a Northern European:

I have seen more extreme examples among Northern Europeans, and southern Europeans can become darker still.

at this point--i want you to note--the comparison between the girl i posted and adriana--doesn't it make it easier for viewers to notice adriana is masculine?

Kristin: Yes, your friend is a good choice when it comes to clarifying Adriana’s facial masculinization.

Kristin - how can you possibly comment on the skintone/ethnicity of Adriana's parents? Adriana has only ever met her father once, so you couldn't possibly know what he looks like. I have also never been able to come up with a picture of Adriana's mother. If you look at runway pictures of Adriana circa 1999, she has incredibly fair skin. Since she is from Brazil, she tans very easily. Her natural hair is very curly, but it is not like course African hair. She has a small percentage of her that is black, but definitely not as much as 1/3.

I do find this site very interesting and informative. As a straight woman, I agree completely with your analysis of what makes an attractive female body, but I cannot seem to find any of the faces you find attractive to be attractive. I think this is perhaps because I am attracted to masculine faces and therefore prefer women with masculine faces as well.

Most people say that Adriana lima is the most attractive out of the VS models. Interestingly, you point out that she is also the most feminine of them. I always think that Adriana is the least attractive of the VS models. I like Heidi and Alessandra. I also think Cindy Crawford has the prettiest face I have ever seen. I think that the reason I do not like Adriana may be because her face is too feminine or at least too babyfaced.

The thing is, VS models exist to sell lingerie to women, not men. It is very possible that fashion models and lingerie models are more successful in appealing to women when they look like men. It isnt just the gay men in the fashion industry. It is the consumer as well. As a straight woman, I can see that the porn stars you post are really sexy to hetero men, but none of them make me want to buy clothing. They make me jealous and catty. I see women like that in lingerie and I think "she is such a whore. I dont want anything to do with her". But I see women like Adriana or Alessandra and I like their sculpted lean physiques. No fat or shapliness to distract from the lingerie. They look like marble hangers. I do not care about their waist hip ratios. They can wear next to nothing without looking dirty or vulgar because their physiques are asexual and that makes me want to buy what is on them. Lingerie with class.

I think these women end up as sex symbols to men because most men are attracted to most women. They will jack off to anything with tits and a vagina. They see women in glossy photos in underwear and think hot before remembering that a good looking amateur porn star would actually be better to bang. Men have low standards when it comes to female beauty, but even then women like Adriana lima sell make up and lingerie- they sell to women. Models like Vida Guerra and Kelly Brook are the ones who appeal mainly to men.

Ghengis Kant: If you are a woman that prefers masculinized female faces, then your preferences are at odds with the majority of women. Most men and most women judge female attractiveness similarly; see point #5 under objective correlates of beauty here. Therefore, the use of masculinized lingerie models cannot be justified by pointing out that they are selling to women, not men.

The great majority of the nude models shown here are not porn stars, and in proper dress there would be nothing dirty, vulgar or classless about their looks. Whereas the use of feminine and attractive women for lingerie modeling may make you jealous or catty, a basic principle of advertising is, “buy our product, look like this or obtain this characteristic,” which in the case of lingerie modeling would be “buy our lingerie, look like this sexy woman, arouse your male partner,” i.e., it naturally follows that the selection of lingerie models be based upon the preferences of heterosexual men, which also happen to be what most women find appealing in the looks of women. In other words, the use of feminine and attractive lingerie models will surely not diminish sales of lingerie.

I have not said that Adriana Lima is the most feminine of Victoria’s Secret Models or even that she is feminine; she just happens to be more feminine-looking than the VS models addressed in parts 1-5 of this series.

Men in general tend to have low partner standards when it comes to casual sex, but not low aesthetic standards, i.e., desired looks in a partner. With posing tricks and fake appeal (e.g., breast implants), a number of VS models do end up on a list of appealing women as far as a number of heterosexual men are concerned, but then there is no high-profile mainstream outlet for feminine beauty appreciation. When the latter is established, we shall see how many masculinized VS models/equivalent end up in lifetime-exclusive heterosexual men’s list of top-desirable women.

i think kant touched on an important point. in hollywood, producers often find actresses who are pretty in non-threatening way--like cameron diaz, jennifer aniston, and nicole kidman, to attract female audiences.all of these women also show signs of masculinity. they inspire audience comradery vs. jealousy.

Kristin: Kant’s point that you have emphasized doesn’t apply to the specific advertising scenario considered here, as I have already explained. Besides, there is a trickle-down effect with respect to the looks of fashion models, given their high status. In other words, when there is a prominent mainstream outlet for feminine beauty appreciation, you will see more feminine women among top-ranked actresses.

What is wrong with this blog/bullshit..everything. seriously, she doesn't look anything like a man, and in fact in my eyes is the sexiest woman alive. she is all natural, not a fake thing in her body except fake eyelashes maybe once in awhile at a photo shoot. But if anything Gisele Bunchen (sp?) i believe was a man. or is still a man. she has a thick jaw line even greater than Jay Leno himself. I mean come on, why write such garbage about adriana. not everyone in the world is fat and has saggy tits. she was just blessed with good genes great tits and nice slim body.

p.s
i read this wrong and i'm sorry for complaining. haha.

It appears that someone has a preference for soft-core porn models rather than legitimate fashion models. The fashion industry doesn't base beauty on average or typical. They don't want their models all looking like the girl walking down the street. Fashion searches for different looks, something more exotic. The boyish body style is practically a requirement for runway fashion models. You HAVE to fit into a certain size, and the flatter chested then the better (unless your modeling lingerie in such a case a model is required to fill B or C cups).

Zemanova would not be offered a contract with Victoria's Secret because of her breast size. They are not looking for breasts that would do well in pornography regardless if they were real or not. Like I said in the paragraph above, professional lingerie models must have a modest breast size. Take also into mind that Zemanova has had her chin surgically altered when she was younger and her photos go through a hell of a lot more airbrushing than Lima's.

Oh, also, the "all natural girls" you display DO look boyish. Especially the last one...what was her name...Gigi? That is NOT a face you would see on a Gucci ad. Why? Because there is nothing special about it. She looks like a regular Jane from the street. No exotic eyes. Her nose is not attractive. Her brow is weak. And she has distinct age lines around her nose that does not look attractive either.

Then there's Marketa, whose face looks like the boy who played Neville Longbottom in Harry Potter...except with blues eyes and blond hair. In other words, she has a fat face, and if fat faces is what you consider being feminine then I think your mad.

Ella: Most nude models shown within this site are not porn models and if there were enough feminine fashion models around, there would be no need to resort to nude models, but then there would be no need for this site in the first place. Feminine beauty is not average or typical, and most girls walking down the street do not possess it. Feminine beauty is sufficiently uncommon to satisfy the need for a different look among fashion models, but the gays dominating the fashion industry would generally have none of it and their preferences are responsible for why a boyish body is needed for fashion modeling. Aside from the preferences of gay fashion designers, there is no need whatsoever for boyish looks among high-fashion models; see Table 2 here and read the rest of the page.

Of course, Zemanova would not be offered a VS contract even if she had never posed nude or gotten breast implants, and because her appearance is too feminine for the company. Victoria’s Secret uses plenty of lingerie models with large breast implants -- Adriana has implants, too -- and if you go through the attractive women section of this site, you will encounter numerous feminine women with small- to medium-sized breasts, but the latter will not be used because of their “excessive femininity” from the perspective of the company. Do you have a reliable citation that Veronika Zemanova has had her chin altered? Please don’t tell me that top-notch fashion models like Adriana Lima have their pictures less airbrushed by high profile fashion media compared to lowly models like Ms. Zemanova in low-profile publications.

None of the women contrasted with Adriana Lima above look boyish. Marketa was shown to illustrate what girlish looks are about; calling her boyish and fat-faced is beyond ridiculous. I don’t like Gigi’s face and would not put her in the attractive women section; I posted her pictures to mess around with Madeline. You have left a detailed comment regarding Gigi’s face even though the first part of this series has noted that the face is not of primary importance to lingerie modeling and should not be focused upon. Both Veronika and Gigi have physiques that are overall better suited to lingerie modeling than Adriana’s, even if you object to the size of their breasts.

Well, that's fine. I dont like your face either, erik. but at least i get paid for my looks, and you dont.

I agree that Adriana Lima can look masculine, along with most fashion models, but you weaken your argument when you compare her with very average looking Slavic girls who have ugly faces. Ex. Gigi from Domai has ugly deepset eyes, an oversize nose, and protruding teeth!!

Whatever agreement I had with you is killed when I see your ugly examples...it's sad that you write so well, then you refute yourself with these pics.

Dr. Azzarolo: Gigi was more along the lines of a joke. I was picking on "Madeline." I am not fond of her face, either. The issue is lingerie modeling, i.e., face is not that important. Many of the glamour models that I have shown in this series are not in the attractive women section because their faces/bodies are not that great.

Marketa certainly looks more girly than a teenage Adriana. Veronika Zemanova doesn't have a great face, but her body is made for lingerie modeling!!! Zemanova did not even need breast implants, and here you have Adriana not able to look feminine in spite of breast implants. Anyway, there are a bunch of other Victoria's Secret models that I need to address, and I will try to come up with better comparisons.

Adriana
has one of the most womanly,beautiful faces ever. I don't care for the Victoria Secert bodies. But they all have gorgeous faces!

all you say about these beautiful women haveing masculine faces is a bunch of bullshit. By the way I am a straight guy.

Chris2 I have had enough of you repeating that you are a "straight guy." You need to stop and not post using multiple aliases. I don't think that you are going to understand this site. Instead of browsing this site, do something else.

Well this site imo is horribly inacuerate about these beautiful models.

Erik you jsut wish you could have Gisele,Adriana,Ana, and ll the Sports Illustrated swimsuit models as your gf/s!

Chris2/Adrianchris: You need to stop using multiple aliases. You have made your point...stop repeating it.

If straight women prefer above average femininity in women, why would gay men prefer masculinity in women? Even with actual trannies, I know most gay men are more fond of the more feminine-looking ones. Sounds like someone here is very prejudice and bigoted!

As nature is very diverse, human beauty manifests itself in many different ways.

...: Do you believe that homosexual men are men with the brains/preferences of women? Hint: compare the prevalence of gastrointestinal infections -- related to sexual practices that translate to the consumption of fecal material -- in homosexual men to that in heterosexual women.

Males approaching the average looks of masculinized female high-fashion models look like adolescent males/effeminate young adult men, which is not inconsistent with your statement that “most gay men are more fond of the more feminine-looking ones.” Of course, many homosexual men are interested in masculine adult men.

Why not take a poll? See what Hetero men, Homosexual Men, Straight Women find attractive for lingerie modeling... and see what happens...it may be surprising...

As an artist, I love all sorts of shapes of men and women.
In drawing, I see all shapes of women especially because the female body is great practice.

Marketa looks very child-like. I looked like that when I was 12.
(I'm just saying)

Maybe get a "high-fashion model" next to a "nude" model in person...

There are "pretty" boys, who many girls find attractive and then there are "rugged" men. Just as there are "boyish" girls who many men love and there are those full-figured women too.

There are many "porno" or "shirtless" models who are masculine. And there are many vs models who are not extremely well known that are feminine.

Also, I think it would be more apparent for people to see masculinity in a woman if she were compared to a man just like the diagrams showed.

Girls who are pear shaped are always going to look feminine, even without large breasts. (something just doesn't look right)
Girls who don't have large bottoms, are still "feminine" compared to an actual man. (especially if they have natural large breasts)

There are even tall girls who are full-figured.

And all the "goo goo" eyes from men that all these high fashion models get (Heidi..two kids and happily married? Giselle dates great men...)..I guess scientifically speaking, male traits are obviously sexy.

Besides, being attracted to someone for their inner beauty is key. Everyone gets old and wrinkly.

Ali: I have cited better stuff than mere polls, though not specifically in the context of lingerie modeling. One can nevertheless extrapolate from numerous studies about aesthetic preferences, and the selection of many Victoria’s Secret models would appear to be curious given the company’s profile.

Of course Marketa looks like a girl. In selecting her, I wished to contrast girlish looks with the more masculine look of a teenage Adriana Lima.

I have plenty of examples of high-fashion models contrasted with nude models within this site and have even posted some video comparisons recently (example). I can’t do much more at present.

I agree that there is variation among nude models and Victoria’s Secret models. However, the choice of nude models is limited by the number and type of women willing to pose nude, porn stars tend to be masculinized [because feminine women are less likely to do porn work] and some men interested in nude women are not exclusively heterosexual. You need to look at the large number of masculinized women that Victoria’s Secret Company is using and ask yourself why.

There is no need to illustrate the masculinity of some women by contrasting them with men, especially since the men will look much more masculine. Contrasting with normal or feminine women is sufficient.

Yes there are tall women with feminine physiques and it is true that inner beauty matters, but what is the point of bringing this up?

About 20% of men are not lifetime-exclusive heterosexuals. Therefore, there is no shortage of men potentially interested in masculinized women, and it does not follow that multiple male admirers of Heidi Klum and Gisele Bundchen suggests that the looks of these women are very desirable from the perspective of men in general. Heidi Klum’s first marriage was to a hairtylist, Ric Pipino, whose profession attracts a lot of homosexual men. The father of her first child, Flavio Briatore, has a history of romantic involvement with masculinized fashion models. Her current husband, Seal, was involved with another masculinized model before Heidi Klum. Similarly, Gisele’s former boyfriend, Leonardo DiCaprio, appears to dig masculinized women and last I heard she was dating a football player who had recently broken up with a masculinized female partner. So think about what kind of men these women are mostly attracting.

Eric, once again you have offered no real proof to support your delusions. You contend that these models are dating closet queers or men who have been attracted to or sexually interacted with other males in their youth. Once again, you have absolutely no proof of this. Your "proof" consists of the fact that Heidi Klum's former boyfriend is a hairstylist, which is too freaking simplistic and retarded to debate seriously. You also say that Leo Dicaprio and Tom Brady have both dated "masculinized" women which proves absolutely nothing other than that they may have a preference for these looks in women. When you come up with REAL proof that men who like these women are fags or have been faggish in their pasts then you have some proof. Right now you are letting your superiority complex and your deluded arrogance blind you.

What makes me a weirdo Eric? Is it my dislike of your nasty nude models?
Bellissima!

Fierce!

SHe should try out for America's next Top Model!

You are clearly insane. Get over yourself.

I only meant that there should be a poll over lingerie models or women who look better in lingerie. Just to see what the general public REALLY prefers....For example, maybe seeing women with VS looks in the same lingerie as a feminine woman. I just think that seeing the two side by side gives a more true visual. I am not saying whether one is better than the other...just to see what "feminine" means to the general public. (out of curiousity)

I was just a little disturbed about Marketa...like I said, sincerely, I did look like her when I was twelve, and it disgusts me to see her so exposed.

I saw the videos...I thought it gave great speculation.

I am glad that you agree that there is variation among nude models and Victoria’s Secret models. Laetitia Casta was once a VS Model and I always admired her natural beauty...although she may have some masculine traits, I am able to overlook them.

Even though one would think that VS WOULD have very feminine, beautiful women as models, I am very glad that they don't. I do however think that more variation in the model industry would be fabulous. Crystal Renn for example is a very beautiful, full-figured woman. Twiggy back in the 60s?...she was a very thin olive-oyl looking girl but she's striking to look at.

Why do they have a large number of masculinized women?
I mean, there has to be a reason why people like VS Models otherwise, they wouldn't be so popular. If we were to look at the tags of bras at dillards, JC Penney or wherever, you'll find plenty of the more feminine looking women modeling them.

Maybe because people in general for whatever reasons are becoming more attracted to it...like...
Women get breast implants, nose jobs, buttocks done, remove ribs, yatta yatta but they also get chin implants, cheekbone implants, and others that would seem to be more of a masculine thing, right? So maybe we like the feminine stuff, yet we'd like to have stronger appearances in other places.

Its not only VS that like masculinized women...it is also other popular lingerie stores like Fredericks.

My idea of comparing them to men was only a thought. When I watch runways shows, it is very obvious which ones are women and men, so you are right about that.

I was just saying that tall women can be feminine.
I wasn't trying to make a point, just my opinions and observations.

So I thought about what "kind of men these women" are mostly attracting and I think that all those men are HOT! lol.

I think that all shapes of women can be sexy.

Anyways, I think that you need to start a lingerie store with feminine women ...maybe you are on to something here.
I just know that female self-esteem is such a problem right now. I know women want to look taller, thinner, symmetrical, but! I also see a problem with feminine women too as they are on the opposite end of the female body spectrum. Women will only continue to get cosmetic surgery to try to achieve an hourglass figure. I think DOVE has got it right...

http://www.campaignforrealbeauty.com/flat4.asp?id=6909

Danielle: Yes, I haven’t proven that these models are dating “closet queers,” but then I never made this assertion. Only a small minority of men who are not lifetime-exclusive heterosexuals are homosexual or bisexual, and I did not imply that these men are necessarily homosexual or bisexual.

Look at it this way. Rich men with reasonable fame have plenty of women to choose from, and are in a position to attract many women that most people consider to be very good looking (feminine beauties). So what would make some such men repeatedly date masculinized women? Obviously a preference for masculinization in women, and if these women are as masculine as Gisele and Heidi, then is it unreasonable to suspect that these men are either not lifetime-exclusive heterosexual or have narrowly escaped nonheterosexuality? I don’t think so. I do not have photographic/videographic evidence that any of these men are not lifetime-exclusive heterosexuals, but what reasonable person wouldn’t suspect it?

Regarding Heidi Klum, you just noted Ric Pipino but not the others. Consider this. A beautiful and famous woman will attract a lot of good looking and wealthy suitors in the age ranging from late twenties to early thirties. Yet look at Heidi’s relationships; the three major most recent ones with middle-aged men. Also look at the facial features of Ric Pipino, Flavio Briatore and especially Seal. These men will not be remotely considered as physically attractive by women were it not for riches/fame. Why does Heidi Klum have this history? Whereas she may be attracted to unattractive older men (strange as it may sound), one needs to consider the possibility that rich, good looking and young lifetime-exclusive heterosexual men will not bother dating the likes of Heidi Klum. It is in this context that you need to consider the profession choice of Ric Pipino, something that attracts a lot of homosexual men, and Flavio’s history of dating masculinized models and Seal’s involvement with another masculinized model before Heidi. The scenario is pointing to the fact that famous masculine women such as Heidi Klum are disproportionately attracting men who are candidates for not being lifetime-exclusive heterosexual, which needs to be seen in the context of my reply to Ali’s contention that these masculine women have been involved with some rich and famous men and hence they are sexy to many [exclusively heterosexual] men.

You have pointed out three women from the attractive women section. The first one’s strength is her waist-hip proportions, and just ask lifetime-exclusive heterosexual men whether they prefer the facial features of Heidi Klum or Gisele Bundchen to hers.

The bodies of the other two women are more of their strong point than their faces. This is especially true of Sonia Blake (the third woman). Sonia Blake has no chance of becoming America’s Top Model because the winner would need to please male homosexual fashion designers, but look at her body and ask yourself where she would place in this pageant if exclusively heterosexual men were in charge of it. There are plenty of women in the attractive women section whose combination of facial features and physique is better than those of these three women and you just ignore them. This section is only going to get better with time, with additions/replacements.

Ali: I will help answer your question about who looks better in lingerie with pictures, some videos and computer-generated figures/animations. The computer-generated images/animations can present masculine and feminine women side by side in similar poses/animation and dress, which will help the comparison issue by keeping factors other than physical femininity constant.

Marketa doesn’t pose nude, and this may comfort you. Her physique from the waist down is that of someone in her late teens; she is only girlish elsewhere.

The popularity of Victoria’s Secret has to do with their heavy promotion and glamorous portrayal. I will post a video to illustrate this. Since homosexual men dominate the fashion business, the VS Company and others like it (e.g., Frederick’s of Hollywood) don’t have to deal with competition...as of yet.

What you buy at JC Penney, Belk, Dillard’s or equivalent isn’t high fashion. The models you see in the advertising in these stores are often commercial models, who are lower tier fashion models, not the big ones that I am focusing on, and hence they could be feminine more often.

Women who get chin or cheekbone implants generally do not try to make their features more masculine. They attempt to correct a deficit.

Starting a lingerie alternative will have to wait. I have to work on making this site better known first.

I have addressed Dove’s campaign for real beauty and pointed out its shortcomings.

I still don't understand your point about marketing lingerie. Marketing and advertisement is something which is thought out to the very extreme, nothing is left to coincidence, so I really don't think the lingerie companies are doing anything wrong (in respect to selling the most) by using the models they are using. If they knew that using more feminine models would make them just a minimally higher amount of profit, that is just what they would be doing.
A woman in an earlier comment thread brought up that women buy lingerie for themselves not men, this is true. Women like cute colours, lace and applications, girly stuff. Most women also have no problem of sexually arousing a man even if they are wearing their white cotton set. Furthermore most women are WELL aware of what their body looks like, are very critical of it and of other women's bodies and know that wearing something modelled by a vs model will not give them the model's body but it's cute and worth spending money for nevertheless. I kind of forgot what point I was trying to make, lol, thinking about nice underwear.
Oh, and have you ever seen the cute bras they have for large cups? Not a lot of options there unfortunately. I totally understand why the models are required to only have B-C cups (also the average in the general population). Beyond D it all seems to be fleshtoned granny bras :( I am often envious that some of the gorgeous whisps of transparency are only for the A cups.
BTW, sorry for commenting on old threads, I'm chronologically going through the archives...

Susie: There are not a whole lot of old threads within this site...just look at the comment posting dates...so you don’t have to apologize.

One doesn’t have to carefully think about marketing when there is demand for a product and hardly any competition. If there were a prominent lingerie company using feminine models, then the others offering comparable lingerie products would have some competition and would need to use more feminine models, but VS can so far get away with its choice of masculinized models because other lingerie companies use similar models. You are again looking at the gay domination of the fashion business, which spills over to lingerie companies, as the reason why lingerie models are often masculinized, not marketing considerations.

Once again, whereas women would typically not have a problem arousing their male partner, lingerie would help put their partner in the mood when he normally would not be. Women are not necessarily passive recipients of their partner’s advances, but some like to initiate their own contact.

The point about what kind of models would be appropriate for lingerie modeling was explained in the first part of this series.

Erik

How feminine is veronika zemanova, is she the extreme end of femininity or is there any masculinity in her?

I'm in agreeance that most of the Victorias Secret models look boyish in the face and body, but I like Adriana's face... It's beautiful to me... I am an even bigger fan of my own girlfriend Robyn Chance. She's a knockout. her face and figure are extremely feminine to me. She's almost entirely of European descent and has 5% Cherokee Indian and models for men's appeal (FHM, Maxim) and is known for being petite and all natural (no surgeries not even fake lashes... believe me I know, she's perfect). I thought I knew what feminine looked like until you said Adriana's face was mannish.... so you tell me?? am I corrupted by the magazines? lol

here are 3 more of my little angel.

Adriana Lima's face is a bit manish, agreed, but in a subtle way.
Her claim to femininity is based on these features:

- Big eyes
- Small jaw
- Full lips

That gives her a neotenia-ish look.
What happens when we remove those features?

Shit happens! :p

Sorry, neotenic/neotenous is the proper adjectival form.

You, that made the whole research for Victoria Secret models, are stupid idiot, and have to find normal job... Hey, you are discussing about the most famous and the most beautiful women in the world that were chosen among ZILLION other girls, especially Adriana, Karolina and Heidi. I don't see any masculinity in here and there is no point to make comparison with some nasty nude models that look pathetic, just like porno divas. Get over with, it's not worth discussing it all of you here.

I have yet to find artractive the women erik use as examples of "femeninity"...
They all look like victims...women that look weak,with a look that screams low self esteem,and just totally ordinary,vulgar and above all CHEAP.
I find it funny that this guy wants this type of girl to be in the industry instead of women with unusual,exotic looks.
My guess is that hes atracted to women who look unthreatening to him, therefore his dislike for women with a strong ,athletic,independent,unusual or agressive look.
Im just looking at all those pictures of pudgy faced women with no chins,eyebrows and bad hair he uses as examples of the "holy grail of femeninity" and I just laugh...histerically laugh and laugh again.
Erik...you just got issues and BAD taste.
Adriana is B-E-A-U-T-I-F-U-L ,if theres "masculinity" in her...she was truly blessed with it.
As I commented on another post, you might use a certain "clinical" or "scientific" criteria to identify "femenine" traits... but you dont hold the magic key to "true beauty",as to tell people what they should find atractive.Beauty is an OPINION,not a fact.
Many people could,and will find beauty on these "unatractive" "masculine" "adolescent boy" women that you insist of pushing as "wrong". Even much more atractive than the ordinary and ugly women you use as examples.
Maybe if you had better taste,and used better examples of "femenine beauty" that do not come from cheap adult sites,without bad teeth ,bad hair,bad skin,that dont scream "white trash", your site would be much more credible.

Wow, I can't believe someone else agrees with me that Giselle is masculine, I thought I was the only one that thought that. However, with the exception of Giselle, the reason why the VS models appear to have masculine bodies is mainly due to them being so so skinny and tall. It is therefore the lack of fat and their long limberness that makes their bodies appear non curvaceous. In regards to Adriana Lima I think she is the sexiest girl on the planet and have always noticed her slight masculinity forehead (due to her ethnicity) but it gives her a sexy look, besides the rest of her face is feminine.

Adrian :

Maybe if you had better taste,and used better examples of “femenine beauty” that do not come from cheap adult sites,without bad teeth ,bad hair,bad skin,that dont scream “white trash”, your site would be much more credible.

This is Adriana Lima with some relatives :

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c10/NinaNina19/Models/87d4130e5b074f14...

Hmmmm... it looks like "brown trash" to me, doesn't it?

I find it funny that this guy wants this type of girl to be in the industry instead of women with unusual,exotic looks.

Define "exotic"
I mean ... those fugly brownies are EVERYWHERE !

You have to realize something :

- Rousseau is DEAD
- Paul Gauguin is DEAD
- Margaret Mead is DEAD
- Claude Lévi-Strauss soon will be DEAD (G-d willing)

You are living in the past, buddy.

Catch up with modernity and stick to the facts or get back to Samoa.

So Der Arschloch has finally revealed himself as a racist bigoted idiot. Why am I not surprised?

der..
why dont you go munch on eriks ass? thats all youre good at.

oh ,yes ,the above message came from me (samoan boy with no laptop)

Danielle :

So Der Arschloch has finally revealed himself as a racist bigoted idiot. Why am I not surprised?

* yawn *

So now I'm a racist...

Hunnie bunnie, you need a blast from the past

Der Arschloch, I don't know if english is your third language but it certainly seems like it. I don't recall calling white people fugly or insulted them the way you insulted brown people. I don't think super pale skin is very attractive but most white people don't have skin that pale. You really can't point fingers at anyone because it is clear from your post that you are a racist asshole and you need to take reading classes.

What's your problem, hun...
I said "fugly" instead of "aesthetically unappealing" or something. Big deal.
You don't mince words either, your posting record speaks for itself.
Now do us a favor, jump off your High Horse and break your neck.

I know the likes of you, you would save your minority pets from themselves even against their will
Patronizing morons...

I cannot believe I spent (wasted) my time reading this crap!

i like to lick vaginas

Wow, I randomly arrived at this page from a google search gone awry, but not only is this the most retarded claptrap I've ever laid eyes on, its racist retarded claptrap! BONUS!

I mean, you might as well tattoo "I have gender identity issues" on your forehead if you think Adrianna Lima looks like a tranny...

Der Arschloch, you are indeed racist, and not only that in an especially stupid way! Having brown skin or non-European features in no way makes one mannish, you must have woke up next to a tranny then went on a crusade to decide who is feminine "enough" or something... I can explain it no other way.

Sturmrabe :

Der Arschloch, you are indeed racist, and not only that in an especially stupid way! Having brown skin or non-European features in no way makes one mannish [...]

Shut up, idiot. Don't put your words on my mouth.
I'd rather have Erik's rooster on my mouth than your words - go figure.

Brown/dark complexions are fugly, period.
That's what I said.
That's the color of:

- Malign melanoma
- Mass illiteracy
- Low IQ's
- Tribal warfare
- Bellies swollen by tapworms
- Crappy water supply

etc.

Hardly fashionable!

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

WOW! What a racist turd! Oh Well... It's not like I expected anything better from you Der Arschloch. It is funny that someone who lacks basic reading comprehension skills would think that he can hate on people for having "low IQs" or for being poor.

I pity you Arschloch. Your life is made out of FAIL. You probably get your ass kicked by those "fugly" brownies every day of sad life.

At least you admitted that you want Erik's cock in your mouth.

PS. WTF is "malign" melanoma?

Danielle :

WOW! What a racist turd!

Well ...

I don't like dark complexions - you don't like light complexions

Big deal - Big difference

I say Tomato - You say Tomah-to

Hun, I told you to jump off ur High Horse and BREAK UR NECK in the process.

Try again.

PS. WTF is “malign” melanoma?

Google is ur phriend

Genius.

Danielle :

You probably get your ass kicked by those “fugly” brownies every day of sad life

No, I don't (not yet!)
Why are you assuming that?
You lack imagination, hun.

I could be a pushy jew pretending to be a German bigot pretending to be a White wingnut writing about :

"My Brownie Problem" (And Ours)

In that case, I couldn't be a "racist" no matter what (It Would Follow By Definition)

You see ... on Teh Internetz nobody knows that ur a (whatever)
Your nazi/racist smears can't stick, you stupid noob. So stop trying.
Anyone with half a brain can see that.

http://www.femininebeauty.info/images/smileys/zip.gif

Hmmm... mmmmpff... HUMMMMMMMPFFFF !!!

http://www.femininebeauty.info/images/smileys/zip.gif

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
What a fucking psycho! This dude thinks I don't like "light complexions" when I only said that I don't think that SUPER PALE complexions are very attractive. Many white people share the same opinion so they must be racist too!

The term is "malignant melanoma" Der Arschloch. Google is your friend too. LOL @ your pathetic attempts to insult me. Try again fool! Erik has said that he did not want white supremacists coming to this site with their garbage but I guess all the juicy racist shit on these pages is irresistible to fucktards like you Arschloch. I won't respond to your crap anymore. Have a nice life.

Tom: Veronika Zemanova has well above average femininity, but note that her breasts are not natural. So I would stop short of describing her as extremely feminine. There is nothing masculine about her.

Jose: I didn’t describe Adriana’s face as mannish, but there is an obvious masculine element to it. Your girlfriend, Robyn Chance, is on the muscular side and doesn’t look feminine. I am not calling her manly.

Der Wanderer: Neotenic is the wrong word since it implies retention in the adult of the juvenile features of the ancestral species (which would be apes or something close in our case), but adult humans’ face shape is distinct from apes’ juvenile face shape.

You mentioned swollen bellies due to tapeworm infestation, but the typical reason for the swollen bellies sometimes seen in Third World children is lymph fluid leaking into the abdominal cavity because of inadequate protein intake.

Adrian: If beauty is an opinion, then most people share the same opinion, and regarding women, this boils down to a preference for feminine looks. You have described yourself as a male homosexual. So why bother trying to understand heterosexuals’ preferences? I don’t have to make my site “credible” to homosexuals.

Steve: You are not alone. I have ran into similar comments from people who believed themselves to be the only person to see masculinization and unattractiveness in some heavily promoted models. Anyway, it isn’t just forehead shape, but also the chin, the low-set eyebrows and the cheekbone placement that are contributing to a masculine element in Adriana Lima. The masculine bodies of many VS models are not an artifact of being skinny and tall. I have shown numerous pictures of slender women, many with above average height, that don’t look masculine because their skeletal proportions are feminine (examples).

Sturmrabe: No one is describing Adriana’s looks as those of a male-to-female transsexual’s. Read carefully. And, Der Wanderer never argued that brown skin or non-European features make Adriana look masculine.

Danielle: Der Wanderer used “brown trash” and “fugly brownies” sarcastically in reference to Adrian’s use of “white trash,” and hence Der Wanderer’s comment doesn’t qualify as racist. You have used much worse terminology (e.g., fugbeast and I believe white trash, too). Der Wanderer’s dislike of brown/dark skin is a personal view, and he has explained to some extent why, namely the negatives it reminds him of, which isn’t racist by itself, and the comment doesn’t imply hatred of poor people or those with low IQ. Something disliked is not necessarily hated. You yourself don’t like white skin. I recommend that you look at white people’s backside (most don’t tan it) to see for yourself how super pale they naturally are.

In reference to “super pale skin” (natural white skin color in the absence of blemishes and sun exposure), you said, “Many white people share the same opinion so they must be racist too!” No honey, you got it wrong. The preference among whites is for a tan, not naturally darker skin, but if you look at the preferences of the hundreds of millions of dark people who seek skin lightening, their preference is for naturally lighter skin.

Der Wanderer’s reply to Sturmrabe said that he would prefer my member on his mouth to the twisting of his argument by Sturmrabe. What do you think the “go figure” expression means? It means that the former option is totally unacceptable to him.

Why can’t you stick to a reasonable debate? Der Wanderer’s initial comment was a graphic illustration that is fully relevant to the article, but you, Adrian and Sturmrabe had to steer the discussion toward absurdities!

Wow Erik! You are not only a "feminine beauty" judge/ anthropologist/homosexologist/delusional asshole but you are also a mind reader and an expert on racism! I had no idea that white people preferred ~unnaturally~ tan skin as opposed to naturally tan skin. I am sure that you have conducted a poll so that you can back up that little ~factoid~. White people use artifical means to get tan skin but they prefer ~unnaturally~ tan skin and Black/Brown people use artificial means to get lighter skin but they prefer ~naturally~ light skin!!!! You are a genius and a psychic Erik! I am glad that the world has you in it so that you can shine the light of knowledge into the darkness!

Der Arschloch sees dark skin and he is reminded of wonderful things like mass illiteracy and tapeworms and that isn't the least bit racist! Good info Erik! I'll take that to heart!

I still think that Arschloch gets warm when he thinks about your kibbles and bits but it is kind of you to break down his complexity of his statement to Stumrabe.

BTW I don't see what there is to debate on this page. Gigi is ugly and is unsuitable for life much less modeling. Adriana does her job well and her ~naturally tan~ ass is admired by many white guys. Isn't that enough for you? I mean isn't that the appropriate criteria to judge how hot a woman is? If white guys wanna fuck her then she's *~hawt~*. The end.

Eric, I changed my name to Steve510, ok her chin is a bit big but its not excessively big like Jennifer Annistons chin for her to be classified as masculine. I have to disagree with you about tall women having feminine bodies and faces, not all but most girls above average height are not very curvaceous and thus do have masculine bodies and faces like big square jaws and broad shoulders etc. This is because girls are not meant to be as tall as males, tall height in females is a masculine quality and thats really the main reason why most supermodels have a masculine appearance. Whenever I see a picture of a girl's face with masculine features, I think to my self I bet she is tall, 9 times out of 10 I am right. I really like your site as I thought I was the only one that thought most supermodels looked masculine looking and have never really been attracted to them except Adriana Lima, Josie Maran and a few unknowns. However, I believe your site needs tweaking, for instance you mention that high cheekbones are a male quality, when in fact the opposite is true. Women have higher and more prominent cheekbones than males, thats why male to female transsexuals get cheek implants. Look at these links:

http://www.virtualffs.co.uk/male.female%20facial%20differences.htm

http://tgnotwhatyouthink.blogspot.com/2007/10/best-face-forward.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facial_feminization_surgery

Another thing that I think people are getting confused about on your site is your "attractive" women section. I am a white exclusively heterosexual man who has looked at your attractive women section. With the exception of Katherine Heigl and Charlize Theron and a few others, most of the girls are quite ugly, and I think you know that. I believe your intension was not to promote attractive gorgeous women in this section, but instead promote feminine women, to show examples of women who don't have big square jaws and protruding foreheads. So you should rename your "attractive" women section to "feminine" women, rather than attractive women, as it is clear most of them are not attractive.

On a final note the reason why men may still find models such as Alesandera Ambrosia and Hedi Klum and others attractive, is because their features are not overly masculineized, ie: they don't look like men. Therefore, with the exception of Giselle they are still good enough for us guys to find them attractive because they have not reached the threshold that makes them indistinguishable from men. I personally don't find Alexendra Ambrosia very attractive because I don't like her narrow elongated face. However, I can see how others do find her attractive, as she has perfect symmetrical and unique looking facial features.The reason I don't buy your argument homosexuals choose models that look like boys intentionally is because most of the judges on Americas next top model are homosexuals and most of the girls that win do not look overly masculine to me to be classified as adolescent boys. at least in the face.

Feminine Americas next top model winners

Eva Pigford

http://bbs.typhoon.gov.cn//1198288959/Mon_0610/20_2602_ae6739709a6eba3.jpg

Naima Mora

http://bbs.typhoon.gov.cn//1198288959/Mon_0610/20_2602_e01ec44e7039bb0.jpg

Nicole Linkletter

http://bbs.typhoon.gov.cn//1198288959/Mon_0610/20_2602_2fb13380db01671.jpg

Danielle Evans

http://bbs.typhoon.gov.cn//1198288959/Mon_0610/20_2602_5245cc4d20a24e8.jpg

Jennifer Aniston's big chin

http://www.jenaniston.net/gallery/albums/pictures/magazines/a-l/harpers-...

Here's a pic with Adriana Lima's figure, she is standing in one place not posing to accentuate the hips, yet she still has a feminine figure and not a masculine one as you proclaim. Granted, its not overly feminine as some of your glamor models but its good enough as her lower half is wider than her top half. Remember, the hourglass figure is the rarest of all body types, so it would be difficult to find someone with an unbelievably beautiful face and an hour glass figure.

http://www.geocities.com/brazilian_hourglass_women/brazilian_women/adria...

Erik surely you can guess if veronika zemanova is extremely feminine with her natural breasts, what great difference would the breasts make and what great difference is there between extremely feminine and well above average. Have you an example of an overall extremely feminine woman?

erik,
googled more pics of her do you agree she looks absolutely hideous many of her pics due to her breast implants.

Danielle: I didn’t talk about “~unnaturally~ tan skin as opposed to naturally tan skin.” By naturally darker skin I meant genetically darker. Regarding Der Wanderer’s comment, illiteracy and tapeworm infestation are much more common among dark-skinned populations than among whites. So what is racist about his comment?

If there is nothing to debate on this page, then you need to stop commenting. Gigi was posted with Madeline (most of her comments have been left as Sarah) with mind. I am not serious about using her for lingerie modeling. A woman’s hotness is not judged by whether men are willing to sleep with her. Some men have such low standards that you could say that they will sleep with anything.

Steve510: You are wrong about the masculine look in fashion models being an artifact of height. I have shown plenty of feminine and tall women within this site. Within any ethnic group, feminine women will be less common among tall women, but given the resources of the fashion industry, there should be no problems finding a large number of feminine tall women.

I did not say that “high cheekbones are a male quality.” What I said is that masculinization causes a higher placement of cheekbones on the face. Women do indeed have more (horizonatally) prominent cheekbones than men, but their cheekbones are placed lower on the face. The references that I have cited to support these assertions are taken form peer-reviewed journal articles and are far superior to your three citations.

Based on the feedback that I have received, your assessment of most of the women shown in the attractive women section being ugly is very atypical, and I don’t see any need to rename the section.

You reject my argument about gay fashion designers on very weak grounds. Not one of the models you have pointed out are among the top ranked high-fashion models, and none except [borderline] Nicole Linkletter is feminine. Look at the top-50 high fashion models’ pictures when they started modeling (mid-teens or late teens max) and then ask yourself whether I got it wrong. You need to realize that the Next Top Model show is marketed to the general public. It is used by companies to pitch their products to the general public. They are bound to put some feminine women in the show, but they are more likely to be eliminated, and the winner will obtain modeling contracts as promised but she will not necessarily become a big star.

I haven’t described Adriana’s physique as masculine, but more like it being insufficiently feminine for the job. Your picture is inadequate because her face shape is unclear (hair + shadows), and she is standing with her shoulder blades drawn together, making her shoulders look less wide. Whereas hourglass physiques are uncommon, the fashion world has the resources to find women with such bodies and faces that would strongly appeal to most people, but the homosexuals are not interested.

Tom: I do not have pictures of extremely feminine women. Small breasts vs. what you see in the pictures would make a difference regarding whether she is well above average in femininity or extremely feminine. I don’t like Veronika Zemanova’s face, but I don’t find her ugly.

Eric, I agree my citations are not as superior as are your peer reviewed journals, and I had 2nd thoughts after I post them. Yeah I know there are feminine tall girls out there, but it may be rare to find them with symmetrical and unique features. My picture of Adriana Lima was to show her lower body being bigger than her top half, not her shoulder blades or her face. Ok saying the women in your attraction section are ugly maybe a bit harsh but their not beautiful and most are average at best. You must admit some do look like trash, like that one you have up in the corner, WTF is up with that? Here are the only ones I find attractive in your section.

http://www.femininebeauty.info/images/nikky.case.1s.jpg

http://www.femininebeauty.info/images/lisa.welch.2.jpg

http://www.femininebeauty.info/images/keeley.hazel.1.jpg

http://www.femininebeauty.info/images/katherine.heigl2.jpg

http://www.femininebeauty.info/images/pamela1.jpg

http://www.femininebeauty.info/images/sharon.clark2.jpg

http://www.femininebeauty.info/images/michaela.1.jpg

http://www.femininebeauty.info/images/maria.a.2.jpg

http://www.femininebeauty.info/images/anna.s.2.jpg

http://www.femininebeauty.info/images/maria.mcbane.1.jpg

http://www.femininebeauty.info/images/sally.todd3.jpg

Thats only 11 girls I find attractive out of 60 girls in your section, the rest are average at best! I have searched this forum like crazy where is the feedback that people love your attractive woman section? Do you they send you emails or something? I wasn't trying to argue with you about why masculine models are more popular than feminine ones, I was just offering an alternative explanation, your idea about homosexuals picking girls that aesthetically please them maybe right but I doubt it. Why do you use girls from trashy nude model cites, why not use more from magazines that are catered for men but are more classy like FHM or even penthouse? Usually those ones don't have skinny non curvaceous supermodels.

I find it hard to believe you are attracted to these women, I mean come on they look like men in drag, their faces are too elongated.

http://www.femininebeauty.info/images/ivy.1.jpg

[url=http://www.femininebeauty.info/images/vt2a.jpg ]http://www.femininebeauty.info/images/vt2a.jpg[/url]

http://www.femininebeauty.info/images/fine.woman.3.jpg

I just realized I missed one, but that still only makes 12 that are better than average looks in your attraction section. Is your section about girls better than average looks, or girls that are just average?

Attractive

http://www.femininebeauty.info/images/callista.2.jpg

Erik

I also dont find veronikas face very attracive though i would also not class her as ugly, she has a wonderful looking body but her face lessens her overall appeal by a long shot making her look pretty average most times.

Danielle wrote

"Gigi is ugly and is unsuitable for life much less modeling."

Funny how it's the sane, non-racist person who is deciding who to march off to the gas chamber as unfit for life.

The argument (it would be absurd to call it a debate) sunk to new lows with Danielle's remark about Gigi, who is, after all, a person, even if folks don't find her the most attractive.

I frankly found the remark that someone was unsuitable for life to be far worse than anything Der Whatsisname said. >_<

But, I guess open-minded tolerant people can say whatever they want when decrying the intolerance of others. *eye roll*

Dingleberry, don't take my statements so seriously. I don't care what Gigi does with her life and I'm not wishing for her to bite the dust. I just wanted to be mean. I haven't killed anyone and I haven't mentioned gas chambers anywhere in any of my posts. I haven't attempted to "debate" anything on this page. I called out Der Arschloch for being a racist which he IS and that's all I did.

Erik, I am pretty damn sure that most white people don't have a specific preference for skin that is not ~genetically~ tan. They like tan skin that looks natural. It doesn't matter how they got it. People with those fake orange tans get mocked. Many white people have naturally tan skin.

Dark skin is just dark skin. Attaching specific negative connotations to dark skin IS racist. He doesn't like dark skin because he thinks that people with dark skin are poor, sickly idiots. It doesn't take a genius to see through his statements.

DUH, it's easy to see why she looks masculine. It's the brow. It's more prominent than the other girls. Her actual eyebrow is low-set and not thin. It creates a deeper-set look that is attributed to men because testosterone creates a large brow ridge when teenage boys develop into adults. She has that same thing going on, but the rest of her face is girly. It's the only reason she looks slightly masculine, body notwithstanding.

wow. looked at this site a while back, and stopped back in, wondering if i misjudged it. you are clearly spreading white supremist doctrine by "educating" men on the subtle beauties of feminine white women. it is soo sad that there are still people so caught up in making sure the white race continues, when we are all human---all one. while an earlier poster mentioned dark fuglies being everywhere, being connnected to poor water supplies, etc---one could easily connect pale skin to ruthless, predatorial, conquisadors that ran over the earth in pursuit of material things worth not even a fraction of the human lives lost/destroyed. all ethnic groups have had their dark times and heydeys.

but i probably won't change your opinion. i just hope God heals your heart. cleanses out the irrational thought patterns, ignorance, and prejudice.

danielle--- erik's statements are reminiscent of the white knights, etc. and other racist sites. i only know because i am familiar with the history behind a lot of racism.