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Does Miranda Kerr have a broad nose or am I biased?

Miranda Kerr

I was previously chastised for describing Miranda Kerr as broad nosed.  Sarah couldn’t see it and Danielle called me the most biased and pathetic judge of beauty that she had ever came across.  Well, I have evidence that the bony part of Miranda Kerr’s nose would be classified as a twin deformity by plastic/cosmetic surgeons: a broad nasal dorsum and a broad nasal base.  I would not personally describe her nose as deformed, but if I am biased, professional surgeons are worse.

To understand the twin bony deformities in Miranda Kerr’s nose, look at the following schematic showing the nasal bones in relation to the surrounding maxillary bones.  The dorsal width is indicated by the length “x” and the ventral width or nasal base width is indicated by the length “y.”

Nasal bones and bony nose vault

Fig. 1. Nasal bones in yellow (left) and a schematic of the nasal bones and adjoining nasal processes of the maxillary bones.(1)

Fig. 2 shows the 4 types of bony nasal vault deformities.

4 types of bony nasal vault deformities.

Fig. 2. “Abnormalities of bony nasal vault morphology.  (A) Asymmetric nasal bones.  (B) Asymmetric nasal bones and asymmetric nasal process of maxilla.  (C) Wide nasal bones causing excessive dorsal nasal width.  (D) Wide nasal processes of maxillae causing wide bony nasal base.”(1)

The following illustrations depict deformities C and D in Fig. 2; from left to right: broad nasal base only (D), both broad nasal dorsum and broad nasal base (C and D) and broad nasal dorsum (C). 

two types of bony nasal vault deformities.

Fig. 3. Bony nasal vault deformities; shown from left: broad nasal base, broad nasal base and broad nasal dorsum, broad nasal dorsum.(2)

Watch what happens when the deformities in Fig. 3 are corrected:

Surgical correction (osteotomy) of bony nasal vault deformities.

Fig 4. Voila!  Some dramatic improvements, aren't there?(2)  Surgical improvement of bony nasal vault deformities shown in Fig. 3; from top to bottom: after lateral osteotomy, after lateral osteotomy and medial oblique osteotomy, after medial oblique osteotomy.

So do you see why surgeons are prompted to describe the pre-surgical conditions of these women as [aesthetic] deformities?  How would the surgeons describe Miranda Kerr’s nose?  She would be described as a bad case for a white woman.  Contrast her with all three examples of white females that reduced the thickness of the bony part of the nose (preoperative pictures on left) in a paper by Kortbus et al.(3)

People considering surgical correction of the bony nasal vault should read the first two papers cited(1, pdf; 2, pdf) and select a surgeon who is very well-versed in the techniques described.  In the papers, osteotomy refers to cutting the bones, dorsum is front surface, ventral/base is back of the nasal vault, medial is toward the middle, lateral is toward the side and oblique is at an angle.

Miranda Kerr also has another nose deformity, illustrated in the following image, namely one of a narrow middle vault, which is defined as any upper cartilaginous vault that is at least 25 percent narrower than either the upper or lower nasal thirds (see a paper by Constantian,(4) which I will be discussing in a subsequent article because it is important).  This deformity is sometimes not obvious in her pictures.

Miranda Kerr

Fig. 5. Narrow middle vault nose deformity in Miranda Kerr; see text; click for larger image.

I suspect that Miranda Kerr has yet another nose anomaly/deformity, namely of not having a straight nose in side view, but I haven’t come across a clear profile view of her.

Once again, I am not describing Miranda Kerr’s nose as deformed, but using terminology that cosmetic surgeons would assign to it.  If I am pathetic and biased, how would one describe medical professionals?

On another note, Miranda Kerr is a Victoria’s Secret model.  Having a non-broad nose is important in modeling because a narrow nasal base allows the skin on it to drape more narrowly, creating a shadow effect and results in brighter reflection of light from the dorsum compared to the nasal sidewalls (dorsal highlight).(3)  The papers cited again show why being selected by Victoria’s Secret does not imply that this is because most people/most among the target audience find the woman very good looking.

On yet another note, given the before and after pictures showing the results of nose jobs, it should be clear why women who have had nose jobs should be banned from beauty pageants.


  1. Cochran, C. S., Ducic, Y., and Defatta, R. J., Rethinking nasal osteotomies: an anatomic approach, Laryngoscope, 117, 662 (2007).
  2. Gruber, R., Chang, T. N., Kahn, D., and Sullivan, P., Broad nasal bone reduction: an algorithm for osteotomies, Plast Reconstr Surg, 119, 1044 (2007).
  3. Kortbus, M. J., Ham, J., Fechner, F., and Constantinides, M., Quantitative analysis of lateral osteotomies in rhinoplasty, Arch Facial Plast Surg, 8, 369 (2006).
  4. Constantian, M. B., Four common anatomic variants that predispose to unfavorable rhinoplasty results: a study based on 150 consecutive secondary rhinoplasties, Plast Reconstr Surg, 105, 316 (2000).


She does have a broad nose. In the first photo, she is quite attractive otherwise. In the second photo, she is more obviously masculinized. Her eyebrows are also very thick.

Yeah, I too think she has a broad nose, but why does it have to be considered a deformity? She may not have the best nose, but her nose definitely isn't ugly. Those surgeons...tsk, tsk.


Plastic surgeons define "deformity" as "anything we say it is to get people to pay to change it".

"the American Society of Plastic and Reconstructive Surgeons (ASPRS)... tried to explain to the FDA [U.S. Food and Drug Administration]... "There is a substantial and enlarging body of medical information and opinion to the effect that these deformities ((small breasts)) are really a disease."
"Stamping Out A Dread Scourge" by Barbara Ehrenreich, Time magazine, June 24, 2001

Plastic surgeons call small breasts a "disease" despite the fact that small breasts are perfectly functional as mammaries and cause no health problems whatsoever. So it's no surprise that plastic surgeons call broad noses, broad nasal bases, narrow middle vaults and non-straight profiles "deformities".

Miranda Kerr looks BETTER with her natural, relatively wide nose than she would look with a surgically narrowed nose, and her narrow middle vault and slightly bumpy profile are beautiful.

Erik, I realize you are simply quoting plastic surgeons' terminology of "deformities" without calling these features deformities yourself; I am saying these features are not just not deformities but actually beautiful on the right face with the right matching features.

Natural great beauties who refused to change their "deformed" noses:
Uma Thurman
Vanessa Williams
Sophia Loren

I can appreciate the difference - somewhat. It would be better if the "after" pictures also lacked makeup (obvious in 2nd pic series) and better hair (3rd). Also if they were the same size.

As to Kerr, Is she "white"? "Deformity" or not, she's pretty.

Hi Erik what do you think about the face and body of an Italian actress named melita toniolo. she has natural breast and round hips. do you think she's feminine or not all?

and also what about my favourite Italian actress monica bellucci?do u think her face is feminine?

So Erik, what would you say is the proper range for nose width? You know, where it gets to extremities and the like?

Miranda's nose isn't thin, but it does not look broad, especially in these pictures. And deformity my ass; Whipped Honey hit it right on the head - plastic surgeons only call broad noses "deformities" to make women insecure with themselves so they'll pay a few grand to get something fixed that was never wrong in the first place.

If Miranda's nose looked any different, I doubt she would look as cute as she does now; her nose, as well as her thick eyebrows are attributes to her prettiness. Why anyone, especially a heterosexual man, would not find this woman adorable is beyond me.

Exhibit A proving plastic surgeons's definition of "deformities" is nonsense:
Michael Jackson's post-surgery face is free of all "deformities" and is the ugliest face on Earth!

Plastic surgeons define "deformity" as "anything we say it is to get people to pay to change it" AND take each feature out of context from its surroundings. Yes, Miranda Kerr has a somewhat broad nose - which is proportional to her somewhat broad face. A narrow nose on a broad face would look badly proportioned and unbalanced.

Michael Jackson's natural face full of "deformities" was merely homely; Michael Jackson's face at his career peak after some plastic surgery was free of "deformities" and much more handsome; Michael Jackson's current face after much more plastic surgery is STILL free of "deformities" and is the ugliest face on Earth, which tells you how much "deformities" have to do with attractiveness!

Oh, and Denzel Washington's always natural face is full of "deformities" and is one of the most handsome faces in the world.

Plastic surgeons' arbitrary definition of "deformities" says Michael Jackson looks better than Denzel Washington!

Sure, Miranda Kerr's nose looks "broad"... but it's beautiful. She is beautiful. There are so many types of beauty.

I respect your extensive effort in trying to help women with eating disorders by "setting right" the fashion/beauty industry.

But what I can't understand is how you believe changing the worldly definition of "feminine beauty" from what you consider to be the "masculine norm" into your personally-defined "feminine ratio" is going to solve the problem of women not feeling they are beautiful enough.

So long as there are people meticulously dissecting, analyzing, and documenting the exact proportions of beauty, there will be women feeling they are not up to par.

You think an hourglass figure makes a woman femininely beautiful? It is truly lovely, I agree. Yet there are a vast number of women with very different statures outside that definition which still possess incredible and unique loveliness. Hopefully they have people in their lives who appreciate, cherish, and proclaim their personal beauty prior to them finding "scientifically" critical sites such as yours.

Please: Take your research, effort, and hours of meticulous research/documentation and put them to a better use that will truly work on solving some of humanity's greater problems.

Why are you picking on Miranda Kerr?

she is part asian. so her face overall is wider. in proporttion to her wide set eyes and cheekbones, her nose is fine.

If Miranda’s nose looked any different, I doubt she would look as cute as she does now,even if she spent in Canal boat holidays

Are you people serious? find me one person who has the perfect nose and you wont find it, every person has got a different shape or form of nose which to some would be considered a deformity, and to others, normal, and even to others a blessing.

I dont really know the point of this site, basically to discuss if her nose is broad or not, but i know it's definately not relevant to anything important in todays life.

Miranda got lovely nose and cute, I don't find anything wrong with it.

Her nose is broad, but the her big, wide lips I dislike even more. Idon't find her pretty.

Bad case for a white woman? Maybe you know something about white woman beauty standards, but the girl is mixed with Middle Eastern and also Southeast Asian. You can't really standardize every guy of her exact mix and get a survey on what they find attractive. There's no such thing as perfection, at least when it comes to people. Miranda Kerr is a pretty damn good combination of imperfections in that case.

You people act like having a broad nose is a sin

she is absolutely beautiful.why do u consider her nose?shall we all be perfect?or its a aprt of plastic surgery advertisment?

She is one fug bitch. Needs to get her nose fixed pronto!!!

are you flexible enough to suck your own dick now since no one else will do it broad nosed or not?

She does have a thin nose but in 2D the 2 sides of the nose plus the middle look like one flat surface! So noses look a lot bigger on paper. That's why even stars with thin noses get the sides thinned out. I think her success even with a 'wide' (not really, more like natural) nose shows that she is truly beautiful.

Well, my nose is too thin. It is the typical nordic nose and I hate it. It's long, straight, thin and so boring. I would rather have a cute dainty nose. So a little wider and shorter which would make my eyes spaced out better too. See her nose is broad but her eyes are spaced nicely, I want that. Is there any plastic surgery that can do that?

i think she is VERY beautiful and her nose is not bad. i would love a girl like that any day of the week.

LOL her now is sooo weird in the middle it's flat like the bridge was wide or something, girl needs nose job. LOL random guy, I wonder if you work for Miranda or you are her.

Thats the widest nose Ive ever seen..How shes become a supermodel beats me!

Her eyebrws are ridiculously thick, and its because her facial efatres are so large, even her teeth, that she must have big eyebrows to make her eyes not look so bad..Imagibe her witrh thin eyebrows..It would look bad..Also, because her nose is so broad, thats why she always her hair flowitn over the isde and never pulled backk..She doesnt have a strong jawbone like other models and thats why its always out..I saw a picon the covber of Glamour and slick back doesnt suit her because of her profile..her hair is always in the same way because her features are so braod that its the only look she can pull off..Hair draping over the side gives lenght to the face and makes it appear longer..length she doesnt have..she has width..too much of it, and somehow,. hasd made it far in modelling..i ahave seen her nose profile on facebook, and itshorrible..shes got a bump on her top nose..I think she needs it done badly..
Ive seen her in real life..Ive seen hottergirls, and her feautures look like someone has compressed her face length wise..Definitely an abnormality..who made her supermodel tell me!! im sick of seeing her in magazines she has no place in..Reserve it for cat eye strong jawed model\s with medium noses..Adrainna loks very similar to Miranda, without the wierd wideness.Miranda look worng if you ask me!

I don't really understand the relevance of this post...Now i do think your being really picky!
I think Miranda is cute and one of the better looking "top models". Personally i think her nose blends in and doesn't distract too much from her face.
Afterall didn't you yourself say in the Maria McBane post that one or two features won't alter from the attractiveness of the face (something along those lines)?
Also didn't you say Megan fox's nose job was "fine" since it only was a slight change and did not distract from her attractiveness?

Come on...Yes i think you are being biased here. Wow what a crowd you have assembled on this page!
"she has broad and thick lips" ? yeah...right
"abnormality" she looks very normal to me
"thick eyebrows"? maybe some men prefer the natural look instead of the alien like...drawn in with pencil look.

Yes, she does have a broad nose and she's beautiful!!!!!!!

hey you guys are JUST jealous!!! miranda is beautiful, rich and successful!! and nobody is perfect so leave her alone. i think her nose is gorgeous and so should you. That is the meanest thing i have ever heard. Yeah and if you DO think it is 'deformed' for some stupid reason, then there is no need to set up a blog and embarrass her like that!! Jeez. . what has the world come to!!! anyway who are you to tell Miranda what to do?? HUh??? You may sound so smart by the wording of this blog but you are just too BLOODY IGNORANT to face the truth!! I am totally disappointed!! :(
sorry to those people who are respectful of people of who they are not what they look like and who try to see the good things in a person rather than bad.

You're absolutely right, what does Victoria's Secret have against nose jobs?

her nose looks weird and she has a smushed up face. i also hate the butt chin she has and her thick eye brows. yuck!!!

she is absolutely beautiful and changing her nose would detract from her unique look.

'unique' to you is another word for fug, what a sad excuse.

she may have a broad nose, but, come on, she's more attractive than most of the women in your attractive women section!

Right on, Ladies!!

Miranda Kerr's nose is wonderful and much more interesting than it would be if made to look like every body else's nose. Beauty is not conformity.

Uniqueness and deformity are not synonyms.

Thank you for speaking up. And thank you so much, beautiful ladies, for not allowing yourselves to be "deformed" into boring conformity. We all have benefited from your courage.

Lincoln Pain

"Boring conformity" = a harmonious, well-shaped and beautiful nose.

this site is just... wow

Sorry if this general comment is off point of this thread...

I can appreciate the scientific information referenced, (I haven't read it all) but I don't find many women in the "Attractive Women" section attractive (I assume that you have used the scientific criteria to choose the women in that section as examples.) To me many of them appear weak featured and pubescent.

Regarding supermodels I am conflicted. Many times I have seen pictures or footage of A.Ambrosio and A.Lima and co. and found them very attractive, how much of that is due to the lingerie and near nudity of the Victoria Secret catwalk? The pictures linked from superficial do show A.Ambrosio's ordinary day failings quite horribly. I agree with much of the following discussion that in those cases the "super" model looked very boyish, too skinny and not attractive to me as a heterosexual man. So much of what we see is edited and airbrushed it is difficult to tell what is real.

I agree completely that the video of Dasha used for comparison of shapes against A.Ambrosio was just too pathetic. She looked like she was dancing for her next fix.

I do not think that the Gigi character type should be dismissed, even though it was used as a joke. One comment sticks in my mind - "She is more like a mother".

When we get to the core of heterosexual attraction, what is it's purpose? It is certainly nothing so dainty as the aesthetic appreciation of structure and ratio etc. There are many mind-hacks in the area of human attraction which are not borne out by real people's eventual choice of mate.

Of all the women shown in this site I have to say that Gigi is the most attractive to me. Her large breasts and wide hips are a large part of it but also I don't see any of the photoshopping so obviously evident in every advertisement of women's fashion and cosmetics. From what I see every day the only difference between Gigi and the media image of A.Ambrosio is the wide hips. When I see A.Ambrosio on the catwalk her breasts are magically much bigger and her ass is accentuated by killer heels and an exaggerated swing of her hips.

I know I am not staying to the separation of beauty from attraction but the point of describing someone as simultaneously beautiful and unattractive seems abstract to say the least.

To finish - I see many comments that high fashion models are not meant to be beautiful to men as they are not selling to men. I am sure that is the case. But what about male models? Shouldn't they be selling to men? They don't. They match the ideals of man illustrated in magazines I would never read and they are wearing clothes I would never feel comfortable wearing. If by all accounts I am an average man, they have missed a shitload of their target market.

I love her nose. It's beautiful. And so is she.

Hell no. She has a GORGEOUS nose ... I love it.
And somebody said she has thick eyebrows. What the ...? First of all, they're not THAT thick. Okay, for Frida Kahlo you can say she had thick eyebrows. But Miranda? Nope. Her eyebrows are just right. And second of all, thick eyebrows are beautiful (well not Frida Kahlo thick). Way better than those drawn with pencil or those that are very, very thin.

Most of you are sooo pathetic. I can't believe there are still people on here that like thin, narrow, witch-like noses. Don't be so narrow minded, litterally. I mean if Miranda has a broad nose, what to think of an average afro american woman? Miranda's nose might be slightly wider in comparison to Charlize Theron's nose or to Christina Aguilera's nose, her nose is still not to be called wide. If her nose is broad, what's Beyonce's nose to be called? What Christina Milian's nose to be called?

Get a grip people, Miranda has a beautiful baby-like cute nose. It fits her perfectly well. It gives her face a distinct, soft look. I looooove her nose. It's unique, it's cute and it's one of the reasons why VS gave her the job.
I bet Emily has an ugly pointy narrow nose. Miranda's nose is prettier than hers. And I know that without even having seen her.

Many people still don't seem to get that there is not something like 'a perfect nose'. When will it finally get through to you that not everybody thinks the same way you do? When will it finally get through to you that a narrow nose is just as pretty or ugly as a wide nose?

Barbie is boring, people. Barbie is boring.

Gemma Ward is worlds most succesful model at the moment. Look at her nose >>><<< , it's not as narrow as Lily Cole's, but she's still more succesful than Lily Cole. She has an exotic, asian like nose and I think it's beautiful. It gives her that babyface, just like it does Miranda. It's just the perfect, moderate nose.

Most of you are sooo pathetic. I can't believe there are still people on here that like thin, narrow, witch-like noses. Don't be so narrow minded, litterally. I mean if Miranda has a broad nose, what to think of an average afro american woman? Miranda's nose might be slightly wider in comparison to Charlize Theron's nose or to Christina Aguilera's nose, her nose is still not to be called wide. If her nose is broad, what's Beyonce's nose to be called? What Christina Milian's nose to be called?

Get a grip people, Miranda has a beautiful baby-like cute nose. It fits her perfectly well. It gives her face a distinct, soft look. I looooove her nose. It's unique, it's cute and it's one of the reasons why VS gave her the job.
I bet Emily has an ugly pointy narrow nose. Miranda's nose is prettier than hers. And I know that without even having seen her.

Many people still don't seem to get that there is not something like 'a perfect nose'. When will it finally get through to you that not everybody thinks the same way you do? When will it finally get through to you that a narrow nose is just as pretty or ugly as a wide nose?

Barbie is boring, people. Barbie is boring.

Gemma Ward is worlds most succesful model at the moment. Look at her nose >>><<< , it's not as narrow as Lily Cole's, but she's still more succesful than Lily Cole. She has an exotic, asian like nose and I think it's beautiful. It gives her that babyface, just like it does Miranda. It's just the perfect, moderate nose.

What Erik fails to realize is that unless a woman is hyperfeminine, which is not even attractive, she will exhibit masculine features at certain angles, especially in photographs. Take Charlize Theron for example:

She has a GORGEOUS face! I mean if you could describe anything as angelic, she would be it.









Now take a look at Charlize Theron in these pictures:







It goes to show that the wrong lighting, hair, or makeup can even make perfection look slightly mascunilized and unattractive. Although Charlize's bad photos are a far cry from those of the Victoria's Models, she is not perfect just as no other woman is. If you look hard enough you can find some type of mascunilization in any woman.

On another note, there I have noticed a phenomenon that many women have pretty faces and ugly bodies or visa versa. I find that the majority of women with dainty feminine faces, like Charlize's often have mascunilized bodies. On the other hand I will see many everyday women and celebrities alike with ugly mascunilized faces and great bodies. More so however I see pretty faces with masculine bodies.

Godis: Honey, if you wanted to show that if we look hard enough then we can find some type of masculinization in any woman, then you have failed. Masculinization is not denoted by a single feature but by how different parts come together or overall looks. Charlize Theron is not a feminine woman and neither does she have a face with clearly above average femininity among women of her own ethnic background. She has fine facial features, which add an element of pseudo-feminization to her face. This is why you can find pictures of her face where it looks feminine and others where it doesn’t looks so feminine (disproportionately her older pictures). Besides, she has not had a nose job, at least none that can be inferred from the photographs.

Really? I find that Charlize Theron has a very feminine face? I don't see what is not feminine about it really, only that it sometimes looks mascunilized,and like I said I think many times with bad lighting or a bad hairstyle a very feminine womans face can even look masculine. I would say that the more overall feminine woman compared to Charlize Theron like Keeley Hazel and Megan Fox both have more masculine faces than Charlize Theron. Maybe I am biased because I think Charlize has a beautiful face for some reason. I never mentioned her having a nose job? She has a really cute nose, now Emily that is a good Nordic nose in my opinion.

Also, I'm not saying it is bad lighting that makes the VS models look masculine, just that the lighting they use emphasizes the masculinity they already have. It is obvious the goal of the designer is to masculinize them as much as possible.

I'm glad you responded because I have a few more questions for you if you could respond some time:

1. Do you think women who are naturally attractive and have high estrogen levels need to wear makeup? There have been studies that showed that with no makeup feminine women were preferred, but when makeup masked the effects of masculinization on the face (I don't know to what extent mascunilization can be masked with makeup honestly) those women were preferred almost equally to the feminine women. I am wondering because I do wear makeup. I have light eyelashes, my hair is now a dull darkblonde/light brown color and looks harsh against my pale skin, and even if I stop eating healthy for a week only it shows up on my skin straight away. So, I am wondering if I'm just ugly and that is why I need makeup or if makeup generally helps anyone including feminine women.

2.Do finger lengths determine how feminine or masculine someone is? I always believed myself to be a very feminine woman, since every time I walk in a room I can garauntee I will be the girl with the smallest waist, the hourglass figure, and usually even the girl with the largest breasts. This is among any type of population including Northern European women since the majority of the kids at my university are Caucasian and Northern European. However, despite that it seems that my index finger is shorter than my ring finger which suggests that I have higher testosterone levels than estrogen levels. I have small hands, they appear almost childlike. I am not underdeveloped, just really feminine like I said. My feet and hands are actually attractive, my hands are dainty and cute and my feet have a nice arch to them and they are small. I know masculinization usually shows up in your hands and feet if anything else so I don't understand if the finger length thing is accurate how I could have high testosterone levels. Unless of course I just have high levels of everything, although I doubt that is even possible. Is the finger length thing accurate? Am I really masculine and pseudo-feminine or something? I'm so confused, there is just no sign of any masculnization for me except the finger thing...

3. Can giving an adolescent girl estrogen, say something natural like phytoestrogens directly from plants, make her more attractive by the time she develops and is full grown? Is there a danger in this? If someone wants to have attractive boys and girls would they give the girls foods that mimick estrogen and not allow boys foods that mimick estrogen like soy, legumes, etc. Would phytoestrogens form plants make a full grown woman any more attractive? Does eating phytoestrogens in high doses actually reverse the effectss and make someone more masculine, while in small doses it works to femininize? I am asking this because I am starting a beauty blog and I don't know much about subject. I might not ever write anything about it, but if I do enough research I might add something in there and I would really really like your opinion because believe it or not I have come to learn a lot about femininity from this site. Whether I like it or not a lot of the stuff on here is true and it helps me a lot. I think even masculine women should emphasize any femininity they have and that is what my beauty blog is going to be about, getting in touch with your femininity no matter how you are. I'm not going to lie though I still disagree with a lot on this site, but it is the most helpful site about femininty I've come across. So please help thanks!

For question 2, I don't mean higher doses of testosterone than estrogen, I mean it just indicates I have high testosterone levels. I do excel in sports,music,mathematics, and I am competitive etc. and these all seem to be more masculine features according to this article I read. Also, I have a high sex drive but I think my interest is based on the fact I am waiting for marriage and never had any. However, I am extremely feminine. Ever since I was a kid I was obsessed with the color pink,wearing dresses, primping myself, etc. I was your typically girly girl except I liked to play with cars too and got along with the boys just as well as with girls. Now I am extremely motherly and I can't wait to have kids. I would feel fufilled in life being a stay at home mom and taking care of the kids, house,and husband. I love gardening, and I have high test scores in the verbal and reading department all strong feminine qualities. I love clothes and makeup and interior decorating. etc. You get the drifT! Am I feminine or masculine or just really well balanced although my physical features are not balanced but appear very feminine? I have an hourglass shape and good hips and a backside, but I run extremely well despite that. Why is it I am fairly athletic(not super athletic) but don't have an athletic body?

Also, can you please give me an example of a celebrity that has a really feminine face that you've never mentioned on the site. Very above average feminine qualities. Can you please point them out individually! Thanks!

Might I add, I'm not kidding but I have a body like the character Lara Croft from Tombraider. So I can see how it may be a tad bit on the athletic side. However, my thighs are less muscular but they are shapely, my shoulders more rounded and slightly smaller although close in size, and my waist is almost as small but probably not quite as small. However, my waist is freakishly small. Also, my ribcage is probably the same size.

Lara Croft Pictures, Images and Photos

lara croft Pictures, Images and Photos

lara croft (trl) Pictures, Images and Photos

My backside is similar to hers. My face looks nothing like hers, lol. Hers is quite hideous

I believe my bones are probably smaller than Laras as well LOL and when I am more slender I appear even less athletic and more feminine although my body shape remains the same.

Might I also add people compare my body type to a pin-up girls as well, so I am assuming its feminine?

It resembles this:

pink pin up Pictures, Images and Photos

VINTAGE PIN UP Pictures, Images and Photos

Oh I see, with Charlize Theron's nose job you were referring to the nose job photos. No,that is not why I posted them up. I don't believe she had a nose job either. I put those up to show how feminine she was at a younger age as well. She was really feminine. I still can't get over the fact that you believe she has below average femininity in the face. I really can't. Look at her face. I mean seriously, it is extremely feminine. Look at her face when she is young.



and yes as she gets older she gets slightly more mascunilized,but I still believe her face to exhibit above average femininity, I really do.


While Miranda's nose deviates from "perfection", it is fine (meaning not hideous), as the rest of her features are relatively symmetrical. Symmetry is usually what is "required" when gauging one's attractiveness, masculine, or feminine. As for Charlize's face: she has beautiful symmetry, and extremely fine bones structure, as Erik's pointed out. Although I tend to agree with him, that she is not hyper feminine, she has the typical North European bone structure. She is South African, not French (someone said she was French and from what I understand, she isn't), and South Africans are predominantly Dutch (if I'm wrong, please let me know), meaning Nordic, or of a Nordic "sub-type". That would explain her fine, gracile features, and light coloring.

Visitor: after reading your long, lengthy post, I think that you are trying to convince yourself, not anyone else, that you're feminine. Regardless if your index finger is shorter than your ring finger, if you're built like a pin-up, or Lara Croft, I think it's safe to say that you're above average in the femininity department! I doubt that Erik can tell you anything conclusive, but you seem to be fixated on this. Feminine women can excel in math and science, can play with cars and be interested in pursuing athletics without being butch. You have spent so much time discussing this, and I'm sorry if my comments are unappreciated and uninvited, but you did post them on a public forum! Every woman can, from time to time, be a little masculine in some areas, but they're probably still feminine overall. Why don't you send Erik some pics, and contact him via e-mail, if you're looking for a thorough in-depth analysis.

As far as your pin-up pics, I loved them! Good luck.

Oh and by the way: taking any estrogen supplements, even "herbal", or over the counter, should probably be discussed with your OB/GYN. I know that my mom was recommended them at menopause, but they interacted with other medicines she was taking and had to stop taking them.

Might I also add, that it is pin-ups, not super models, that I thought to be beautiful and ideal. To this day I prefer their looks overall and so do most of the men I know. They often say, "Man, if only women really looked like that." Some men actually do believe that they are being decieved by the media. I really hope that Erik's endeavers are fruitful (no pun intended-or maybe I should have said fruitless[lol]). This is a really savvy and thought provoking site and am so glad I found it.


I am visitor. lol. I am really not trying to convince myself I am feminine,but I am really confused because the truth is after I found this site I believed myself to be feminine. Now, after finding out about the finger length in relation to hormones I realize there is a chance I may not be as feminine as I think or feminine at all. I have big breasts, and a small waist, and round cheeks and very feminine features but they may just be the result of genes rather than hormones. If I have high testosterone levels, but my genes make me appear feminine, then I would only be a pseudo-feminine girl, kind of like Charlize. I would have good genes, but not good hormones and this concerns me because the higher your estrogen levels the more fertile you are. I am confused as if I am really feminine or not and I want to know. I like to be educated so then I can take action on anything I can control. If my hormones are off maybe there is something I can do about it, and maybe I can educate other women about how to become more feminine and beautiful as well. I am an artist, I've been drawing and painting from a young age, so I often focus on the beautiful things in life as most artists do. I am fascinated by the concept of beauty, both the philosohpical and scientific views and definitions. I want to be beautiful and healthy, just like any other woman. I just want to take full advantage of any potential I could have. I also don't want any woman to get left behind. I think every girl deserves to be beautiful and if I find any way of enhancing my appearance and health I would share it with every woman in hopes that they too can find happiness and fufillment from my discoveries.

I like natural remedies for beauty, and am looking into phytoestrogens although I do not understand the articles most of the time because I have a bad tendency of scanning things instead of actually reading them as Erik knows from the many times I have scanned his articles without really reading them. This is because I have a lack of time and come on websites like this during my breaks because they interest me. I also want to start a beauty blog that helps women to become as healthy, feminine and at the same time strong, and beautiful as they can possibly be with whatever they were given by God. So far I have discovered the amazing effects of olive oil as a natural moisturizer and also the effects it has on skin if taken orally. I realized olive oil contains pretty good levels of phytoestrogens and wondered if there was a connection. So, I don't think I need to consult a doctor, I don't believe in going too far. I like natural remedies for anything and have thrown out my moisurizer since discovering olive oil. Probably the most unnatural things I use are: eye cream with low doses of retinol to prevent wrinkles, my face wash whatever it contains, certain makeups like eyeliners and cover up which are made out of who knows what I should look that up. Otherwise I use mineral makeup, I use olive oil as a moisturizer, I eat healthily and exercise and thats my ingredients to beauty. If you have any tips on phytoestrogens please let me know! I really want to know if they can make a woman appear more feminine or if they actually do the reverse. I am confused about that. I know they may be harmful if taken in high doses, but I think it is common sense to anyone that most things should be eaten in moderation and consuming slightly higher doses of plants containing phytoestrogens than your usual intake probably won't do any damage.

I still do not see a lot of masculinization in Charlize Theron's face especially in those photos where she is really young. If anyone can point out WHY her face is mascunilized and compare it to someone that has a MUCH more feminine face than Charlize please do so, you'd be my hero.

I am still wondering to what extent genes play a role in attraction and to what extent hormones do.

And yes to a certain extent I agree that Northern Europeans have good genes which include fine facial features. However, the reason Northern Europeans are more feminine in my opinion is strongly correlated to diet, a diet that has been around for looong time. But again I scan a bunch of articles without ever REALLY reading them so maybe my theory is off. I do wish I had more time and went into the science field now.

Rose McGowan is very feminine, and attractive, and is also in Erik's attractive woman section. She has very fine features, not too prominent, as in masculine. Katherine Heigl is feminine. She's also in the attractive woman section, so Erik and I happen to agree on that, apparently. And Charlize is on the title page of that section, although as Erik's pointed out, she has some psuedo fem features, but attractive and feminine, nonetheless. Why do you need Erik to verify this for you? I'd like to say Malin Akerman, but Erik might not agree. She is fine featured, but maybe masculine. Who knows? I know what I find feminine and attractive, and that's good enough for me!

Malin Akerman Pictures, Images and Photos

Malin Akerman Pictures, Images and Photos

Malin Akerman Pictures, Images and Photos

Notice how her "Watchmen" look hardens her features, which I believe was the point, as she was supposed to be a "bad ass"

lucha Pictures, Images and Photos

That is just my, not anyone else's opinion....

I am correcting myself, Miranda's face seems heart or diamond shaped, but her nose seems more "bumpy" than "bread".

By the way Godis, as far as diet goes, when it comes to longevity, not necessarily beauty, I have read that Mediterranian (olive oil based foods), and some Asian diets, are the healthiest. Scandinavian diets are similar to other Northern/Western European diets, and their life expectancy stats are still very high. Sweden, for example, has a very low infant mortality rate, and life expectancy is slightly higher than that of Ireland, Britain, etc. I don't think, though, that their diet has much to do with their overall appearance, as far as bone structure and coloring. Anthropological literature indicates that the indigenous peoples of N. Europe have had their distinctive facial/skeletal shapes for thousands of years. Although evolution plays a part, at one time, Scandinavians had very different features than those on the British Isles, but the Vikings travelled to much of Europe, and a lot of their features "inter-mingled" with others, so that over time, their became many Nordic "sub-races". Most of my family, for example, is Keltic Nordic, as well as Borreby. The coloring of our family is much the same as Scandinavians, but our features differ, except for the nose, we all have the "Nordic nose", which I definitely believe to be a good thing.

So as far as diet, being the reason for the looks of Scandinavians, that may be a small part, but I don't believe it plays the most significant part. It really is just good genes. At one time, the Vikings had many struggles, which is why they travelled to other parts of Europe. They had very good survival skills, and did what they had to do as a race, in order to prevail.

I do believe that diet plays a significant role, as can be attributed to the average heighths of some countries, that are increasing. Scandinavians have always been known to be taller than other Europeans, but then again, there are some tribes in Africa, where the average males are extremely tall, but one could probably assume, that diet does not attribute to this.

I am in no way a scientist, just a person that is very interested in her personal racial and ethnic heritage. I do enjoy reading the articles, not just "scanning" them. Godis, this is a very fascinating topic-European Anthropology, and I'd actually read it, instead of scanning it.

By the way, Erik, if I've been misinformed and have posted any inacuracies, I'd appreciate clarification. Thank you.

Continue the excellent work here....

link | Submitted by Visitor on Wed, 07/29/2009 - 23:56.

"Really? I find that Charlize Theron has a very feminine face? I don't see what is not feminine about it really, only that it sometimes looks mascunilized,"

"I still do not see a lot of masculinization in Charlize Theron's face especially in those photos where she is really young."

Erik has argued fine facial features can add an element of "pseudo-feminization" to a womans face giving her face a more feminine appearance or making her face look facially more feminine than it actually is in "reality" and Charlize Therons face is such an example and this is probably where your getting confused. Charlize theorn has a fine shaped nose which is adding pseudo-femininity to her overall face. It is clear in looking at Charlize Therons overall physical appaerance she is not a feminine woman. Fine facial features may even make a face appear overall feminine when in "reality" it isnt but one would have to be well versed in masculinity/femininity to know where to draw the line. A feminine face is not going to look masculinized and the fact that you have said somwtimes you find Charlize Therons face " sometimes looks mascunilized" is point made.

Charlize's face may be somewhat masculinized, but she's beautiful, with elegant contoured cheekbones, a lightly defined jaw, etc. Though she is not Erik's ideal feminine face, she is no where near as masculinized as the high fashion, and especially, the VS models that are the current ideal. No one is going to confuse Charlize for being a man, or a transvestite or transexual, I'm sorry, "masculinized" or not.

Is this "feminine", "pseudo feminine", or "masculinized"?


Sweet Mary


Michaela by Robert Hammar

Regardless, of what "catagory" they fall in, it is evident that they are attractive, look like women, even if there is mascluinization, or pseudo feminization present. The point is, it can be hard to tell, what with all the criteria that one has to consider, even upon reading the articles here.


Although I can very well discern what is feminine, at least below the neck, I.e. narrow ribcage, small waist, a noticable swell of hips and softly protruding buttocks, as well as hand/foot, and arm length, to be honest, I'm at a loss at assessing faces!!

I'm a female, but the topic is very interesting, your research and sources are sound, and I have no arguments, but it seems as though you assess faces as: if there is any, even if elegantly refined, discernable "bone structure" that is evident, than the face is automaticly percieved as masculine. I really can't understand why, and I've read a lot of the articles here, as well as looked at the "attractive women" section.

I can see though, at times, when you've acknowledged when a woman has a certain amount of masculinization, yet is still attractive.

I don't really have a question, just more of an observation. It seems though, that elegant, refined, and very slight definition of bone structure, even if it's slight masculization, or pseudo feminization, is still very attractive and lovely. Lots of examples have been given here, by your commentators. I suspect, though, that you may find a lot of the pics of celebrities posted are not feminine, even if there are many who do still find them very attractive.

In my observation, it would seem that the slight and what I percieve as delicate or refined bone structure of a woman's face is more attractive, by and large, than a hyper-feminine face. However, I still believe that the most feminine physiques are most appealing, and have seen women who do have facial pseudo-feminization, or slight masculination, and still maintain a very feminine figure. I believe that to be the most attractive. Kate Beckinsale is the example I'm thinking of.

I very much appreciate the very "pro-female" (as I heard someone else say) message of this site. I've seen the way that some reacted to it, making it much more political than it should be, and taking offense at European women being the focus. Regardless, continue the work you're doing.

I mean to say that I'm a loss at assessing slight feminine/masuline elements in women's faces. I look at faces all day long, but not in that regard. I think that by giving it a lot more consideration, it could actually become extremely useful in my line of work. Obvious masculinization/feminization is apparent to me, but it's the subtleties that I'd like to get a better grasp on.

Sorry for not mentioning that more specificly in the previous post.

Miranda also had breast augmentation!!!!!!

"Erik, I realize you are simply quoting plastic surgeons' terminology of "deformities" without calling these features deformities yourself; I am saying these features are not just not deformities but actually beautiful on the right face with the right matching features."

Thanks for that intelligent contribution, W.H. As Edgar Allen Poe quoted Bacon in his story "Ligea", "There is no great beauty without some...strangeness in the proportion."

She does have a big nose, which looks biggish even after airbrushing, apparently.

I think she is really pretty.

Her nose may be a little broad but I think that it suits her face. Miranda Kerr looks beautiful and by changer her nose, she would look like the Miranda Kerr everyone know. Natural is the best way to go.

Miranda is so gorgeous. I bet many women would pay so much to look like her. The ones who think she is ugly has strange taste. How can someone so beautiful be ugly? You can say that she isn't the most beautiful in the world or she is okay, but ugly? Why? She is no where near ugly. Nothing is wrong with her face. She has perfect facial harmony. No one's nose is perfect, it just has to go with their other features.

Regardless of surgery or not her current nose is just gross, its one of those things that once you notice its hard to stare at anything but that... Check her out plenty of pics at its funny I never noticed before cause shes wholly beautiful until u notice the nose! It's impossible to take your eyes off that hobbit-like nose

I really can't deiced if i think shes pretty or not. In this photo omg yes but ive seen so many others where she looks NOTHING like she does her. And she really looks aloot older then she is.

Miranda Kerr is not part Asian.

A direct quote from her:

"I’m pretty much just Australian – obviously, in my blood, there’s a lot of English, I have Scottish, I have a little bit of French, I have English."

It was rumored that she was Filipino, Turkish, Iranian, and Serbian, but she is simply English, Scottish, and French.

Do not believe everything you read on the Internet.

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