A recent article in the NY times by Guy Trebay documents the very thin male high-fashion models seen lately. A desirable 6-feet-tall model needs to be in the neighborhood of 150 pounds.
The explanation? Trebay offers the following. My comments are italicized.
Credit Hedi Slimane or blame him. The type of men Mr. Slimane promoted when he first came aboard at Dior Homme some years back (he has since left) were thin to the point of resembling stick figures; the clothes he designed were correspondingly lean. The effects of his designs on the men’s wear industry were radical and surprisingly persuasive. Within a couple of seasons, the sleekness of Dior Homme suits made everyone else’s designs look boxy and passé, and so designers everywhere started reducing their silhouettes.
Then a funny thing happened. The models were also downsized. Where the masculine ideal of as recently as 2000 was a buff 6-footer with six-pack abs, the man of the moment is an urchin, a wraith or an underfed runt.
Comment: If Hedi had been designing for overweight men, it is doubtful that most others would start emulating him. If others followed his lead, it is because they found it appealing. The question is why?
Guy Trebay adds:
“The first thing I did when I moved to New York was immediately start going to the gym,” the designer John Bartlett said. That was in the long-ago 1980s. But the idea of bulking up now seems retro when musicians and taste arbiters like Devendra Banhart boast of having starved themselves in order to look good in clothes.
“The eye has changed,” Mr. Bartlett said. “Clothes now are tighter and tighter. Guys are younger and younger. Everyone is influenced by what Europe shows.” What Europe (which is to say influential designers like Miuccia Prada and Raf Simons at Jil Sander) shows are men as tall as Tom Brady but who wear a size 38 suit.
“There are designers that lead the way,” said James Scully, a seasoned casting agent best known for the numerous modeling discoveries he made when he worked at Gucci under Tom Ford. “Everyone looks to Miuccia Prada for the standard the way they used to look at Hedi Slimane. Once the Hedi Slimanization got started, all anyone wanted to cast was the scrawny kid who looked like he got sand kicked in his face. The big, great looking models just stopped going to Europe. They knew they’d never get cast.”
Comment: Blaming Miuccia Prada? A Designer will lead the way if she comes up with a standard most others find very appealing. Again, why would most be influenced by one or two individuals?
Guy Trebay then has this:
“I personally think that it’s the consumer that’s doing this, and fashion is just responding,” said Kelly Cutrone, the founder of People’s Revolution, a fashion branding and production company. “No one wants a beautiful woman or a beautiful man anymore.”
In terms of image, the current preference is for beauty that is not fully evolved. “People are afraid to look over 21 or make any statement of what it means to be adult,” Ms. Cutrone said.
Comment: Ms. Cutrone should try to find out how many men would rather be skinny than muscular.
Guy Trebay spills it:
“Skinny, skinny, skinny,” said Dave Fothergill, a director of the agency of the moment, Red Model Management. “Everybody’s shrinking themselves.”
This was abundantly clear in the castings of models for New York shows by Duckie Brown, Thom Browne, Patrik Ervell, Robert Geller and Marc by Marc Jacobs, where models like Stas Svetlichnyy of Russia typified the new norm. Mr. Svetlichnyy’s top weight, he said last week, is about 145 pounds. He is 6 feet tall with a 28-inch waist.
“Designers like the skinny guy,” he said backstage last Friday at the Duckie Brown show. “It looks good in the clothes and that’s the main thing. That’s just the way it is now.”
Comment: So the obvious has been stated...“Designers like the skinny guy.”
Another quote from Trebay:
George Brown, a booking agent at Red Model Management, said: “When I get that random phone call from a boy who says, ‘I’m 6-foot-1 and I’m calling from Kansas,’ I immediately ask, ‘What do you weigh?’ If they say 188 or 190, I know we can’t use him. Our guys are 155 pounds at that height.”
Their waists, like that of Mr. Svetlichnyy, measure 28 or 30 inches. They have, ideally, long necks, pencil thighs, narrow shoulders and chests no more than 35.5 inches in circumference, Mr. Brown said. “It’s client driven,” he added. “That’s just the size that blue-chip designers and high-end editorials want.”
Comment: More confirmation of the obvious. It is the designers in general.
So what happened? Homosexual fashion designers are trying to get their male models to look younger. Unlike female fashion models, many of whom approximate the looks of boys in their early adolescence, homosexual designers will find it very difficult to have male models generally resemble boys in their early adolescence, but they can certainly push the boundaries over time and have a large proportion of their male models look like boys in their late adolescence and some like boys in their mid-adolescence. And, homosexual designers like John Bartlett, quoted above, would pin the responsibility for the shift on anyone except themselves.
The age preferences of homosexual men vary, and many of them are interested in muscular adult men, but a gradual shift toward the use of thinner and thereby younger looking male models again shows that a large number of influential male homosexuals in the fashion industry have pederastic interests.
Some pictures from NY times:
Boy o boy, onlooker ahoy!
Look who we now employ.
We have our bundles of joy
and we hope you too enjoy
like this queer with his toy!
Eh, an attraction to young adults or even those in their early teens is not exclusive to homosexuals. Having never been a 13 year old girl I can understand if you are not familiar with what is commonly termed 'the old perv'. This would be a middle aged heterosexual man who likes to make longing glances or also 'cop a feel' on either the thighs, buttocks or chest. Practically considered par for the course. Please don't be so naive as to suggest that these tastes are exclusive to homosexuals. Perhaps the sexual orientation of fashion designers does indeed influence the choice of model. Just as heterosexul men have shown their
preferences in the porn industry. Everybody is hiding (and keeping hidden hopefully) some kind of twisted desire. Even you Erik.
Hmmm, I wonder if I would have a shot at being a model. I am 5'10 and weigh 130 lbs no matter what I eat.
The other problem with this ideal is that it might delude some poor straight men into thinking that it is what women actually want.
Some info on anorexia:
"The earliest case of anorexia was a 20 year old girl treated in 1686 by Richard Morton. A paper was also written 1874 by Sir William Gull. Anorexia has been around for a while and the sufferer strives for perfection, control, mastery of self and this leads to the constant struggle they experience.
The refusal to eat food is an outer expression of deep psychological distortions or disturbances. Being thin is perceived as being 'in control' , and this becomes paramount in the sufferers world. Eating is perceived as 'weak' or 'giving in'. And once a person eats they feel they will lose control and never get it back. These distortions give rise to the rigid controlling rituals that the anorexic maintains. Self induced starvation goes against the bodily instincts and this can rarely be maintained. This is why ultimately anorexics end up binge eating and purging food as starvation for many induces binge eating"
gjhg: Where have I implied, “these tastes are exclusive to homosexuals”? The argument is that attraction to less than 16-year-olds is more common among homosexual and bisexual adults. 13-year-olds who are eyed by middle-aged pervs are typically more physically mature than their peers. Look at the second row here and guess which of the girls is much more likely to be longingly glanced at by middle-aged pervs.
Most people do not have sexually twisted desires.
Ana: The earliest case of anorexia wasn’t in 1686; perhaps the earliest formal medical description was in this year. Anyway, I don’t see your point. Anorexia doesn’t have a single cause, but read this site and you will find plenty of evidence that the fashion industry is playing a role in triggering anorexic behaviors in some girls and women.
Hugh Risktik: If you have a good face to compensate for your lack of height, then you have a chance. See a modeling agency ASAP.
Your argument was that large number of influential male homosexuals in the fashion industry have pederastic interests, not that attraction to less than 16-year-olds is more common among homosexual and bisexual adults. That is unless most homosexual and bisexual adults are actually influental male homosexuals in the fashion industry.
Kevin: The comment was addressed to gjhg, who was responding to my arguments elsewhere, including those outside this site.
I think the obsession w/ youth is not exlusive to homosexual or bisexual individuals and that it simply depends on the person and not on the sexual orientation. I do believe that homosexual males are influential in the fashion industry but there is no reason for someone to put false stigma on homosexual or bisexual individuals. I think that having thin young looking male models is exactly the same as having thin young looking female ones. HughRistik said ¨The other problem with this ideal is that it might delude some poor straight men into thinking that it is what women actually want¨ just like it has with straight women thinking they need to be thin to be beautiful. By the way HughRustik I think you´re the shortest a male model can be but I´m sure you can I´m 6´2´and I weight 135lbs I´m an aspiring model too but I don´t really know what to do to be a model.
It's probably not about any reputed proclivities of anyone in the fashion industry.
One reason is that every time they decide to advertise using images of young men that look like boys, they sell a lot. It doesn't have to be overtly sexual either. Everyone likes boys. Some grown men like boys. Some grown women like boys. Lots of boys like other boys. Girls like boys. So why not fashion designers too?
Heck even some lesbians try to look like boys. Every time I tell one of them I thought for a second that they were a boy, they're thrilled.
Many of the skinny young adult models are gay. Often they are skinny not because that's what fashion designers want, they're skinny because they want to look their best so they can get laid more often. The same holds true for the straight ones.
I think that all pedos, homosexual or otherwise, should be tortured and then put to death. Children are not emotionally or physically ready for for this type of attention, pervs.
Butterfly,
"I think that all pedos, homosexual or otherwise, should be tortured and then put to death. Children are not emotionally or physically ready for for this type of attention, pervs."
Ouch!
Hey ok....yes i don't agree with child "exploitation" but what you said is kind of extreme. They are humans after all....A much better punishment might be therapy/extended prison terms and for guys who just can't control it...Life in prison but some might think thats too extreme.
Erik,
"Boy o boy, onlooker ahoy!
Look who we now employ.
We have our bundles of joy
and we hope you too enjoy
like this queer with his toy!"
WOW! I am impressed! You have a creative side as well?
I have just as much disgust at that fact...(I am not positive they are "together")
when i see 35 year olds oogling at 18 year old girls (who look younger than they are). So your in no position to take the "moral high ground".
This article reminds me of a few years ago when i lost a lot of weight...maybe looked anorexic. I weighed 130 pounds at 6 feet tall. Interestingly my measurements were 36-24-26!!! LOL
Which i was so proud of...but Thank God i got out of that phase. I am much happier being a fleshier, softer and gentler feminine boy. Erik do you think i will have a chance with the fashion designers?
Wouldn't it be awesome if i can seduce one of these fashion designers, become rooted and then conspire with you (as my partner in crime) to bring down this fashion world... lol
After all my youthful, gentle, bubbly, feminine looks should work wonders with old/middle aged fashion designers?
Ok i am letting my imagination run wild here.....but it was a good laugh :)
Oh Erik...when will you stop "blaming" homosexuals for all your troubles?
I gave the wrong measurements
They were 36-24-36 :)
What I noticed about homosexual relationship is that although the pair are of the same sex there is always a male AND female influence in the relationship. One homosexual will always be more feminine and have more feminine tendencies and even physical features and thoughts. Another will be more masculine, and this one will always have more masculine tendencies and thoughts. Actually, I have read articles on how sometimes a male homosexual's brain in certain areas can be closer to a female's brain.
Bringing this into light, your idea that homosexuals in the fashion industry are pedophiles is a bit black and white in a gray world. Think about it. I would assume that the homosexuals involved in the fashion industry are more feminine, and take a more feminine part in any homosexual relationship. Therefore, these homosexuals to me are very unlikely to be pedophiles because well women in general (and sorry if this is insulting but it is the truth) are extremely less likely to be pedophiles than men. I believe that the homosexuals in the fashion industry are simply making fashion a reflection of how they would like to be portrayed. Most fashion models are not only masculine but androgynous, because they are females that look like males. Masculine-women. And this is how feminine homosexual men percieve themselves, as feminine males and so the perfect people to use are masculine females because they are the best reflection of a feminine homosexual man, besides being a feminine homosexual man.
Now lets get into the: why do they look like young boys issue? Well, you state yourself that a woman is attractive from around 18-25 I believe? You claim this is the peak of her attractiveness(which I disagree and agree in a way). I actually think you would even be willing to agree a female's peak attractiveness can range from 15/16-25, but of course you yourself need to be politically correct so people don't call you "sick or pedophile themselves". But I know you would agree that 16 is an attractive age and in the "peak" attractiveness period. So we agree on this. Now why is it so hard then to believe that male homosexuals that are on the feminine side consider THEMSELVES most attractive around these ages because it is an age where they are more feminine and youthful looking? That is why they pick models that look like young boys, because it is a reflection of when they considered themselves most attractive and how they looked around 16,17, etc. Many boys don't even really start puberty until they are 16.
Now I would say the more masculine homosexual men would have a tendency towards pedophilia, just as heterosexual erm.. LIFETIME EXCLUSIVE HETEROSEXUAL MALES have more of a tendency of being pedophiles than women do. Period. And so I do not see pedophilia as a homosexual issue at all. Neither am I really assigning that issue to men in general. I haven't really studies pedophilia because it grosses me out, but I would assume it has to do with control, and I believe that in today's society men are more obsessed with control. What is easy to control? Children. I rest my case.
Now another issue is that you believe that men that find Victoria's Secret Lingerie models to not really be lifetime exclusive heterosexual males, and you percieve them to be somewhat in the middle or lean towards homosexuals. Well, I can argue that people who find Keeley Hazel attractive cannot possibly be lifetime exclusive heterosexual males because you said so yourself, that the woman has some masculine traits, and I am sorry Erik you may be in denial but she has some extremely masculine straights via her wide shoulders and extremely flat buttocks, and there are more feminine women out there. Not to mention that you believe the No. 4 spot on the most attractive Ask Men list was appropriate for her. This really makes me question how that is possible since she has some very masculine qualities about her? Therefore, I believe that you just contradicted yourself or you yourself Erik are not a lifetime exclusive heterosexual male. I personally don't believe men who think Victoria's secret models are attractive or who believe Keeley Hazel is attractive are gay at all, but the typed words came from your own fingers. Thank you.
Godis,
Your a really smart young woman!
I agree with some of your points. When i was younger i compared myself to Female models! I had the body shape and height :)
I was tall, skinny and "curvy". I believe i look even more feminine than some female models! But thank God thats over now.
I don't know if you have seen the pics i have posted here BUT these are people's words.
I have gotten feminine face, baby face, kind face, friendly face, face of a 12 year old on an adult body LOL etc...
Although i might like to admit but you are right about the one partner being more "female" and the other "male" ALTHOUGH i find that this is changning recently.
Also you are right the female brain and homosexual brain share a lot of similarities. I think like a girl sometimes...
About Erik, i find he relies toooooo heavily on stats and media. He is very influenced by it whether he admits it or not. I DISAGREE with his findings on pedophelia being a correlate of homosexuality.
I think Erik has some "issues" about his masculinity.
Btw Godis what do you think about older men ... lets say who are 50 that are interested in the 18-25 range of girls and think they look best?
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