Previous parts: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6. This entry is a response to a commentator saying that apart from Karolina Kurkova, other models used by Victoria's Secret are suitable for lingerie modeling. Really?
Elise Crombez has been used by Victoria's Secret. One look at her face and it is instantaneously clear that male homosexuals are involved.
Pictures of her physique speak for themselves about her suitability for lingerie modeling.
What kind of physique would normal people expect to see in a lingerie model? How about the following?
Some close-ups of the woman's face, though these are of little importance here.
The woman shown above is Ginger from FTV girls.
Next, consider the following woman, who isn't feminine.
The woman shown above is Eunice from teen charms.
However, even a woman like Eunice is too feminine for homosexual designers.
The homosexual designers prefer this...
to this...
And they get away with their kind of lingerie models because of their dominance of the business.
Do you have any photographs of Elise modeling for Victoria's Secret?
Some models such as this one may not look feminine in general, but in VS ads they are made to look feminine through photoshopping/airbrushing, etc etc. Go take a look at victoriassecret.com. Other than the supermodels such as Ambrosio, Lima, and Bunchden (whom I will never think looks cute anyways, airbrushing or not), I don't know the other models' names, and am pretty sure they're not as attractive in real life. However, in the ads, they sure do look damn cute, and that is all that matters: what they look like the advertisement, not in real life. That's what sells. I'm sure they've never used Elise for a VS fashion show, or at least not in the recent ones. Most of the women in the VS fashion shows are attractive enough to model lingerie, IMO.
Hey man, just wanted to tell you this is a really interesting site. I can see you put a lot of time and thought into this. I mostly agree (95% +) with where you're coming from, although I think you might be a little harsh on some of the V.S. models. It seems like you picked out the ugliest one (Elise Crombez) to make your point. If I saw her on the street I wouldn't even look twice, I see 100 women a day way prettier than her.
I couldn't agree more about how silly it is that the fashion industry is dominated by super-skinny girls who aren't attractive at all. You put a spin on it that I never thought through, as far as them being less feminine and more masculine than what a normal red-blooded guy likes. Your point that the industry is dominated by homosexuals is well taken. If their taste is the yardstick by which the models get chosen, then there should be no surprise that's what you get - skinny women with no curves who resemble teenage boys.
I also like your side-by-side comparisons of "fashion" vs. "glamor" models, they are totally effective to the point of being hilarious. Having said all this, I don't think there's much chance that any of this will change. Women, not men, are the target audience for fashion-type publications; I do not know a single guy who knows anything about that industry or who pays any attention to it. The purpose of fashion models is to sell clothes to women, not turn men on.
In my experience, when women encounter a female like the ones in your "attractive women" section, they usually take an instant dislike to her. I've seen it happen over and over again. They feel threatened and competetive, and sometimes they're not even sure why. I've had a few women ask me straight out - "What's attactive in a woman?", or "What women do you find attractive?". When I give them a straight honest answer, they argue with me! As if they can argue me into liking something different. They'll say, "Oh she's trashy/sluttly looking, now so-and-so is actually beautiful". If a woman can fit into that mold of looking beautiful to other women without being "threatening" (i.e. overly sexy), she can make a really good living modelling.
Some women will never understand what is attractive to a guy, and no amount of evidence and logic is going to convince them otherwise. Just check out any women's magazine (like Cosmo), the articles in there are stupid to the point of being unbelievable. Like the "How to turn on your man" type stuff. It's so obvious the articles are written by a woman; if the article were written by a guy it would be pretty short and simple. Some women might read it and go, "That's it? It can't be that easy!" A man's needs are pretty basic when it comes down to it, it's almost like some women can't grasp the reality of what simple creatures we are. ;-)
Anyway, good site, and don't let the negative posts discourage you. At the end of the day I'm not sure you're going to actually convince anyone who doesn't already understand where you're coming from, since most people are pretty closed minded when it comes to this stuff. But who knows, if you successfully convince just one anorexic girl to lay off the diet and have a burger, then you've done some good. ;-)
One thing - I'd love to hear your take on the Paris Hilton craze. Her fame seems to be a case of the emperor has no clothes. Does anyone actually think she looks attractive? She's so super skinny and ugly, with that super-pronounced jaw. Not in the least bit feminine in my opinion.
By the way, check out this article where Claudia Schiffer says that models are too thin these days:
http://www.usmagazine.com/node/3034
Take care..
- T
I agree that many of the V.S. models you've shown are fairly man-ish and pretty ugly, although I think Heidi Klum is hot, even if she does have a strong jaw. However: aren't women the customers for the fashion industry? I've heard jokes about men the V.S. catalog as pornography, but the only people I know who actually get the catalog are women. So, maybe the fashion industry is catering to its women customers, and maybe women appreciate models they're attracted to, i.e. models that have male qualities.
By the way, I think Tricia Helfer might be a candidate for "ugliest supermodel". Her looks might have flown on the catwalk, but transitioning to "Battlestar Galactica", a TV show with a near 100% male audience, was a big mistake. She was even ugly in her Playboy photoshoot. Feast your eyes, but you may want to bring a bag:
http://www.thegate.ca/gallery/albums/mmva06/mmva06_tricia_jay.jpg
Sarah: You need to stop commenting here. Your comments are at best useless, and the comment you left above is one of your best ones. You are telling me that Victoria’s Secret is using “photoshopping/airbrushing, etc.” to make its models look more feminine in the ads. What have I been saying all along?
I don’t know if I have a picture of Elise in a VS show, but VS has used her for its lingerie show. In a VS show, she would look like in her picture above with a blue two-piece dress and handbag.
T: I do not consider Elise to be ugly; she is just masculine/unattractive. I haven’t made my case by just citing her; look up the previous parts. Part 6 addressed Adriana Lima whom I don’t think anybody would consider to be ugly or manly by a long shot.
You are right that female high-fashion models are meant to sell clothes to women, not turn men on. But does this mean that the looks of high-fashion models are chosen with sales in mind? There is a great deal of evidence that what most men find attractive in women is also what most women find attractive in women; see this. Even if one were to assume that it is best to avoid very attractive women to avoid making buyers jealous, it certainly makes sense to use women with at least mildly pleasant looks from the perspective of most women, which would translate to feminine but not very attractive women. And what is the bright idea of using skinny models when their looks disturb many women who are potential buyers?
You need to reconsider your jealously assumption. Whereas a number of women who realize that the models shown in the attractive women section have above average attractiveness will dislike them, this will not solely be a result of the models’ attractiveness, but also because most of these women are nude models. Nudity will not be an issue with respect to modeling clothes. In addition, you would have noted that cosmetics models are shown with perfect skin. Should this make potential buyers jealous and avoid the product or buy the product to acquire the skin of the model shown? Many products are marketed as “buy this and look like this or acquire the charisma/other attribute of this person,” which is especially true of the exclusivity element conveyed by high-fashion merchandize. Therefore, does it not make sense to use high-fashion models (I am not talking about mere fashion models) with looks that avoid disturbing the majority, are consistent with majority preferences and convey a sense of exclusivity, something that wouldn’t be even close to the adolescent-boy look preferred by gay fashion designers? You have to understand that the looks of high-fashion models have nothing to do with the requirements of effective marketing. Designer clothing is highly desirable and, in the absence of alternatives, women will patronize the fashion designers even if they mostly use models whom they find unattractive and often disturbing to look at.
I am not discouraged by negative posts. I have work to do and I will do it regardless of what kind of comments I get. And, I am going to bring down the prevalence of anorexia.
Paris Hilton’s fame is not a result of her looks, but because she is a super-rich woman who cannot seem to avoid controversy and has a bunch of nude pictures and action videos circulating around. I have addressed Claudia Schiffer’s more important comments regarding skinny fashion models here.
Steve: What most women find attractive in women is the same as what most men find attractive in women. See my reply to “T” above. Tricia Helfer is masculine, but I don’t see how you can call her ugly. There are numerous top-ranked high-fashion models that look less attractive than her.
"Sarah: You need to stop commenting here. Your comments are at best useless, and the comment you left above is one of your best ones. You are telling me that Victoria’s Secret is using “photoshopping/airbrushing, etc.” to make its models look more feminine in the ads. What have I been saying all along? "
Wait wait wait....
Sarah's comments = useless
Sarah says something that is basically the same as something you've previously declared.
So...you basically admitted that what you said was useless? huh?
rite. kkbb.
ps:
white power!!
8D: Sarah's comment is useless because she has pointed out what I have been saying all along but without explaining the underlying reason; her comment is useless because she has added nothing new and provided no explanation of the observation.
kk bb.
srsly. whateverz. white power!!oneoneone
PS:
you're missing miranda kerr. that girl ain't close to being masculine, she looks like a little girl. with a botched nose job, but still a little girl.
8D: This series is not complete yet. There are many more models to address. I haven't been saying that all VS models are masculine...just that a lot of them are. On the other hand, Miranda Kerr appears to have a masculine element in her, which can be clarified by pictures, but this will be in a separate entry.
So you like porn stars and think that's the definition of true beauty, you also have a huge anti-gay stance going on here. Who are you, a man, to tell all women what they should ideally look like? God forbid I not fit your personal standard of what a beautiful woman looks like. And why is there a need to educate people on feminine beauty? The world doesn't need someone like you to judge women on whether or not they're beautiful. There is no standard - every woman is beautiful and sexy and everyone has their own opinion on who they find is beautiful and sexy. Stop reducing women to body parts and stop the misogyny.
this is an awesome, masculine man:
http://orz.4chan.org/d/src/1183386620855.jpg
^
as you can see, that girl ain't modelin' either. hahahaha.
People who have seen Elise in person have said she is quite attractive. She has a boyish physique but she works her stuff on the VS runway and she is a fabulous model. I think its sad that you have such a narrow definition of beauty and femininity that you can't appreciate anything different or unusual.
By muddphudle at 2007-07-03
She is so alluring here. Thats why she is a high paid model and Eunice and Ginger have to pose like whores on the internet to pay for shopping sprees at Payless and diapers at Walgreens.
Disgusted: I mostly avoid porn stars, partly because they tend to be masculinized women. This site is not about how women should look like. It is about appropriate looks among models in various settings and beauty pageant contestants. You should read the FAQ to understand the necessity of this educational site. Documenting some unflattering correlates of homosexuality is not being anti-gay and there is nothing misogynistic about this site.
Danielle: The higher the expression of attractiveness, the fewer the people who have it. Therefore, beauty does occupy a narrow range. In your picture the appearance is one of androgyny, not femininity. If Elise’s looks are alluring, then they are to the homosexuals who dominate the fashion business, which is why Elise is a top-ranked high-fashion model and the likes of Ginger and Eunice have no possibility of doing high-fashion modeling at present. Women like Ginger and Eunice do not have to “pose like whores”; they typically do it because they want to, and to my knowledge Eunice hasn’t done anything beyond topless artistic nude modeling.
I'm sorry in advance, and I don't mean to be rude (this will be my last comment here as I've got other things to do), but all of the women you've chosen to be attractive look like white trash, there is just no other way to tell you about the impression I get.
That's all I can say. It's been fun. Bye.
I have a comment for "T" before I go . . .
He said: "Some women will never understand what is attractive to a guy, and no amount of evidence and logic is going to convince them otherwise."
Actually, as an artist, I have a very good idea of what beauty is, and while I am not male, myself, as well as other women, are pretty damn intelligent enough to know what true beauty is.
It is true that many of these trashy looking women who most likely expose too much skin are getting all the (wrong) attention, but in sum, women with class are resentful of women like that, because women like myself, we're trying to set new standards for women, rather than being perceived as objects.
Men have never been objectified as much as women, and that is why intelligent and classy women do not like trashy-looking women, because we know they are trying to appeal to the lowest-common denominator and because it is an insult to women as a whole.
Women may also feel "threatened" because such sleazy looking women are perceived as homewreckers, and this is where you men get it right: of course women are threatened by whores. Just as all men would be threatened if their wife was being advanced on by a Lothario.
The only difference between a male Lothario and trashy women is that the trashy woman is more obvious -- she looks it and dresses very provacativly. I wouldn't blame ANY woman for wanting to protect her boyfriend or husband from a "skank."
In the end, what does it all mean anyway? We don't tend to marry people in pictures on the internet or in the magazines. Most men marry women in "real life" and vice versa. These women, both the fashion models and the white trash versions, are just illusions.
I've seen a bunch of people say that a lot of Erik's images of attractive women on this website look like white trash. And I can see where that impression comes from. But you know? I think that's really missing the point, because the perception of a woman as "white trash" depends on stuff like clothing style, makeup, hairstyle, and body language and facial expressions.
Erik isn't saying that feminine beauty is about adopting all that stuff which makes these women look like white trash to some people because of symbolizing lower class. He is saying that the proportions of these women are feminine and attractive. You could take these same women, dress them up differently, and photograph them in a classy manner.
If indeed people associate feminine curves with "trashiness," I think that is a shame, and is probably due to the fact that women with these bodies don't get represented so much in the fashion world, and only in porn and nude modeling (which often has aesthetics that are closer to porn than to fashion). So we never even get to see how these women would look if dressed and photographed in a classy manner. Don't you think that women with diverse body types should get a chance to be presented in a beautiful and classy manner, not just the skinny and masculine body types present in high fashion?
I'm an artist also. I think that as an artist, you probably have a good sense of aesthetics, which is why you correctly find the aesthetics of many of Erik's photos to be lacking and to create the "white trash" look. However, I think you are getting too caught up in aesthetics, and you are missing the point that when Erik is talking about beauty, he is talking about proportions. He is saying that these are the physical proportions that are most attractive to heterosexual men. To say otherwise, without at least some evidence to back yourself up like the evidence that Erik has compiled here, is to prove T's comment correct.
I watch chick chanal everydays and I find all models are very beautifull and glamour. espceially when seen them face to face. the pictures Erik posted just some that look ugly. I find the white porn stars he posted look more uglier. almost frenkenstien-like. and the face has no any attaction. small eyes? deadly ghost skin? dry and pale scarecrowed hair?
dirty party spot on the face just like a dog? with a lot of stretchmark and a lot of fatty cellulite!!
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
LOL! I think I love you! I despise those "dirty party spots" as well. Why am I visualizing a young eastern european model sitting at her computer with a scowl on her face as she types?
Danielle :
Cause ur a bigot.
That's why.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Don't you ever get tired of being such a delusional, irrelevant dipshit? You aren't funny and you never will be. Why don't you stop replying to every post I make in here. You will never succeed in making me look bad and you will never expose any hypocrisy on my part because you are a fucking idiot. Please stop.
Danielle :
"Idiocy" is in the brains of the beholder, hun.
It evolves and fluctuates and stuff.
Why do you care so much ?
Not even in your wildest dreams, hun http://www.femininebeauty.info/images/smileys/kiss.gif
Now, do us a favor.
Jump off ur High Horse and break ur neck.
Get in touch with ur crippled side.
You might score some brownie points and get some food stamps in the process !
^^^^^^^^^^^
You are an idiot Der Arschloch. There is no way of getting around that fact. You are completely retarded and what's really sad is that you think that you are very witty and informed. In reality, you are just a loser and a racist.
Why do you care enough to respond to posts that are not addressed to you? Why does it bother you when people make posts that diss this piece of shit website? Shouldn't you be on stormfront with your pathetic kin folks? Is Erik's cock really that tasty that you feel the need to hang around here and defend him every chance you get?
If being a rational person puts me on a "high horse" then you must have very low standards. Licking Erik's ass on the internet is not going to get you anywhere dumbass.
As many people on here state the guys whom find women like J.lo, claudia schiffer and angelina joli have homo sexual tast? yesterday I did show a picture of the women of those sort you called "tranvestit gay" to my boyfriend. and the women like "SNOW" AND some porn star of Erik. without reading this site. my boyfriend answered immediatary he like the women "Erik said they look like tranvestit gay" my boyfriend said to me " yes pretty, what's wrong? I like her" after that I sent a picture of the porn star of Erik to him ( I really selected one I find she is pretty for me) but the answering I get from my boyfriend is
" Nope I don't like her, she is not pretty for me" so I asked him further. "which one is look feminine to you?" he answered "the first one".
I asked further " Don't you think the first one have feature look like male? she got bigger nose than second one, large shoulders, solid mussle, strong face's bone? awhile the second one got white skin, rounded cheeks and smaller nose"
he answered "Nope I find nothing wrong in the first one she is pretty for me so it's pretty, stop ask me stupid question like a kid, I cann't tell you why I like the first one more"
So, I told about the beauty ideal of this site to my boyfriend and said to him "
"Perhape you have homo sexual tast? so you like those women" ..........
He heard like that and begin to laugh and said
" Oh, Yes maybe I am? I don't mind and don't care."
that is all he said to me. and in my thinking. my boyfriend is no homo sexual because he so different from you, erik. he is easy going guy and NEVER JUDGE a women which one is pretty which one is not, the REAL male find this is STUPID. he seem to be bored very much when I asked him such a question because he said " MALE DON"T JUDGE and THEY ARE NOT COMPLICATE in GOSSIP AND EXPLAIN THE DETAILS OF ANYTHING"
and as I observed my boyfriend, which women have thing opposite in what Erik stats as pretty he'd find she's ugly. but I don't know why he like me because I look feminine and not look like the women in his immegination. but he never said I look ugly awhile he said the other feminine women like on this site are ugly. and he prefers the women like Jennifer lopez, kim barsinger, angelina joli as beautiful. but maybe because the women like "melisande or snow " the pictures I showed to him, he finds they are too fat or red hair so he don't like. I don't know...
Infact long time ago I used to believe like Erik but after I got the first boyfriend in my life I find that not much males like the women in the way I used to think. such as my boyfriend Also in the same woman, which picture she appeared to be pale skin, slender delicate, small lips, doll-like cloth and character, narrow face. my boyfriend'd agree that woman dosen't look pretty in that pic, on the contrary when that same woman posed as tanned skin or dark, full mouth, rise her head up to make the jaw line and cheeksbone look big, solid mussle and large shoulders. he'd say she looked pretty on that pic. manytime he really nerved me in how he think.
Danielle :
Epic LULz !!!
How hysterical can you get ?
Look, hun, your act is getting old.
"Abe Foxman meets Donna Karen"
Epic LULz !!!
You want me to admit that I'm a "racist" or force me to defend myself.
Well, I'm not going to give you that pleasure, you stupid inquisitorial dumbcunt.
I couldn't care less about Erik on a personal level, dumbfuck.
I came here cause I found the subject matter interesting.
You, on the other hand, think he's an idiot and the whole site a load of baloney, but you keep coming over and over, month after month, like a friggin' obsessive.
If that's not love, I don't know what it is http://www.femininebeauty.info/images/smileys/kiss.gif
You don't need to admit anything asswipe. You are clearly a racist and that's the end of it. I don't need to dig anything up on you because it's all in your posts.
This site is retarded like you but unlike you it can be funny. I like making fun of this dumbass site and unlike you, I don't feel the need to rush to defend anyone on the internet. If you thought the subject matter was merely interesting then you wouldn't rush to poorly defend Erik's opinions with lame insults and irrelevant articles and websites.
Most of the posts you make here are insults directed at people who disagree with Erik and you want to call me a loser? Sit your tired ass down and try to grow a brain.
Danielle :
Yeah, just cause you said so.
Aw... STFU already, you mythomaniac, pathological lying biotch.
You told us not to take what you say seriously, didn't you ?
And not just once, but several times.
You pwned urself !!!
I'M ON UR INTERNETZ
http://imgboot.com/images/Lammero/kittypunch.gif
PWNING UR ARSE
Now...
y0!
Get off my High Bus.
Yer gonna get r... punched
Elise Crombez...
or the soooooo beautiful Ginger...
Maybe we should send Miss Crombez and all her friends to the Gulags... as they inspire such hate and jealousy from others.
Many young girls already are in a Gulag - of the mind. The physical effects are the same as the real thing and as John Gray says(in Black Mass) - there were parts of the camp system where it was practically impossible to emerge alive.
Christian, your photo of Miss Crombez proves that off duty she is indeed more feminine because of her pale skin and facial expression; she could give that look at a show but the designers don't want it - for reasons that we don't have to guess at. You've provided a facinating insight, thanks.
Elize is being persecuted for her looks? Well going about the steets like that and built like she is, Elise must be pestered by men of certain proclivities who mistake her for one of their own.
Correction: in the off duty photo Elize looks vulnerable rather than feminine
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