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Mon, 07/30/2012 - 18:52 Staci Welcome!


You wrote, "The spiritual descendents of those who championed eugenics during its heyday, leftists and progressives, are among those more offended by this site today. This should clarify whether an eugenics supporter is behind this site."

Excuse me if I'm being dense, but your answer does not clarify, for me, whether or not you would support some form of eugenics. Because your answer invites inferences, I'll present you with an inference I've made, and you can comment on its correctness: At the very least, you would not support governments intervening to manipulate the genetic composition of a society.

Even if a person does not support using the government/state to manipulate the genetic composition of a society, he or she may still support the use of other means. So, I'll try to phrase my question more precisely this time: Would you or would you not support non-governmental methods of influencing society that would have the effect of creating what you consider improvements in the gene pool?

By the way, you probably already know this through the use of tracking cookies, but I'm not the same "Staci" who has left other comments on your site.

Mon, 07/30/2012 - 18:44 Asian Guy Self-esteem issues related to the feminine beauty site

bookworm, asians have the best skin because they take real good care of their skin. They're much more fussed about their appearances than white girls. And I wouldn't call skin that looks reptilian after a certain age good.

Mon, 07/30/2012 - 18:08 Asian Guy Self-esteem issues related to the feminine beauty site

Hey Emily, I think this Half Asian son of an Asian woman may have just proven everything on this site about white women. And I agree with him fully, to quote,"White females are not only infinitely more beautiful physically than Asian females, they also have much better hearts. All you have to do is look at a white female, and you’ll see the lie of WM/AF. No white man who had a chance with even the worst white female, would give it up for even the best Asian female." The link is here,

Mon, 07/30/2012 - 17:59 Asian Guy Self-esteem issues related to the feminine beauty site

As an Asian guy, I have to say that Asian women are the least feminine. Both physically and psychologically. Their "youthful" looks are more infantile than objectively youthful and I don't appreciate tiny eyes and coarse lips on women. No race of women ages well, but when Asian "beauties" age, they end up looking like reptiles. Just look at Amy Chua.

Like Erik said, white males who mate with Asian women have lower mate value. It's always a nerdy, socially inept loser or old grandpa with an Asian girl. But the best Asian men will usually go for white women. Like Brian Tee and Mirelly Taylor, Phillip Rosler (full Viet adopted by German foster parents) and his wife and of course, Bruce Lee. Asian women know this, and they hate white women for it.

Psychologically, Asian women are the least feminine and nurturing. Really, if I could "Tiger mom" my future son into becoming a Navy SEAL when he has no desire to do it without giving him psychological problems, I'd do it. And their "submissiveness" is a complete facade. Behind the scenes, they're extremely controlling, and not in a kinky way, just plain manipulative.

Mon, 07/30/2012 - 01:07 nicegirl Fashion models and mannequins in East Asia

Erik,thankyou for the reply.I may be getting this,but it is taking some time i am afraid.
I wanted to know how feminine or masculine the face of Jaclyn smith was.The cheekbones,her jawline/gonial angles/chin?I was talking about Minka kellys gonial angles when i said she had a square jaw.Are they sharp or feminine?
I would also like your help in better understanding the whole cheekbone thing.Your comment on Gabrielle from MC nudes page helped me a lot,but i still lack understanding.What if the cheekbones where filled in at the bony part of the cheek area(yellow part).But were also well rounded in the orange area with only a little of the cheekbone arches built up.If the orange area of the cheekbones were also well rounded would the cheekbone still be feminine?At the front of the face when a picture is taken the side of the orange area is very round.Is this feminine as well?

Sun, 07/29/2012 - 12:23 Jasmin Tyra Banks on honesty

Eric, puleez.

Sun, 07/29/2012 - 11:54 Jasmin Tyra Banks on honesty

@Danielle- It has been shown that the golden ratio of facial beauty works across ALL races and ethnic groups. Of course, a great body is a great bidy, no matter what color it is. You can absolutely compare the level of beauty between woman of different races. @Erik- It's amazing the lengths that proponents of this site will go to. You spout tomes of pseudo-scientific baloney to promote your racist , misogynistic agenda. It all sounds so reasonable, so well thought out, so calmly and rationally delivered. That's part of what makes this site so incrediably creepy. You can't hide the ugliness behind your rational sounding arguments. It seeps through like oozing rot. But, let's get back to your raison d'etre. If you want to stick to a white standard of beauty, Northern Europe is not the cradle of feminine perfection you claim it to be. Most women from that part of the world are pear or apple shaped. If you want to see hourglass European women, go to Rome or Athens. A disproportionate number of native women in these cities have perfect, hourglass figures. In fact, the further south you go, the curvier the women. I don't know what happened to you to make you so obsessive about this, Erik. Did you accidentally pick up a tranny with a perfect WHR? Some of them look way more like women than your pathetic examples of exalted Eurowomanhood! Betcha' got fooled, didn't you? Ewww.

Sun, 07/29/2012 - 09:17 Erik Welcome!

Staci: The spiritual descendents of those who championed eugenics during its heyday, leftists and progressives, are among those more offended by this site today. This should clarify whether an eugenics supporter is behind this site.

L: On the topic of a body-positive argument, even feminists, notwithstanding their learning and wisdom, are unable to equally appreciate different body types. So where does this leave ordinary people like me?

You summed up my argument in terms of a rigid standard of beauty among runway models being a contributory factor to eating disorders among women. It is not the rigidity that is to blame, but the standard. Rigidity simply means that generally there is very limited variation around the standard.

You also mentioned that this site is very harmful to you, but in contrast to fashion imagery, does it give you the impression that you could puke your way to the looks being exalted here?

This site is not in the business of telling women how they are supposed to look. It is about what most people find more attractive in a woman.

Sun, 07/29/2012 - 09:13 Erik Self/body-esteem problems in relation to the promotion of feminine beauty

Jasmin: Because of increased negative attitudes toward homosexuals around the mid-20th century, homosexuals could not be as flaming homosexuals as they could be during the 1920s and 1990s. This explains why there were more curvaceous fashion models around the mid-20th century. More on trends:

Sun, 07/29/2012 - 02:21 Jasmin Self/body-esteem problems in relation to the promotion of feminine beauty

Uh, hasn't the fashion industry ALWAYS been dominated by homosexual men? How then, do you explain high fashion model Suzy Parker and all of her hourglass colleagues of the 50's? They wore the designs of almost exclusively gay men. How do you explain Christian Dior's wasp waisted curvy models of the 40's? He was a gay man. Preferences for body tyes change and the current standard of beauty in the high fashion industry is a tall, slim, long legged woman who is not super shapely and has angular features. Athletic looking women are also in vogue. This is very much as it was in the 1920's If you live long enough Erik, perhaps things will turn your way and a preferences for Playboy Bunny tyoes will return. Until then, you're out of luck and you can't blame it on gay men. I also think that the women on your attractive women short list loook rather mehhhh, with the exception of Charlize Theron's heavily photoshopped image.

Fri, 07/27/2012 - 08:11 L Welcome!


I stumbled across this site accidentally while researching the way various renaissance artists painted women's bodies. At first, I thought perhaps this was some sort of body-positive website, and quickly realized it is anything but.

First, I would like to start off by saying that I have an eating disorder. I am a binge/purge type bulimic and I have been struggling with this problem for 10 years. I have been hospitalized for it, and I am currently in the constant uphill battle that is recovery.

I noticed you had a section about eating disorders. I read through it - and I must say that I find it very hypocritical and almost amusing, when considered in the context of the rest of this website.

You discuss how the rigid standard of beauty - a very thin runway model - is a contributing factor to women having eating disorders. You are absolutely correct. However, I also must point out that YOUR standard of beauty (which, you attempt to argue, is what the majority of the population considers attractive) is EXTREMELY narrow. It is narrow, linear, strict and it is not the way that most women look.

So, I must inform you that as someone who is recovering from an eating disorder, your website is extremely harmful to me - and pretty much any other woman that views it (unless perhaps she fits your extremely rigid definition of "feminine beauty", which isn't likely). I need to point this out because you made some sort of "effort" to address the issue of eating disorders - yet, you seem to be completely unaware that YOU are PART OF THE PROBLEM.

Telling women how they are "supposed" to look, or how they "should" look, is going to contribute to some women developing eating disorders. It doesn't matter of you are telling them they're supposed to look stick-thin or if you tell them they are supposed to look "curvy", the fact that you are arguing for a very specific definition of beauty at all makes you just as guilty as the fashion industry in regards to the overwhelming presence of eating disorders in our society.

Sure, it's nice for me to see that you're arguing against a standard of beauty that promotes a very thin woman - but I am also reading all of this business about hip-to-waist ratios, breast specifications, how my butt should look, etc...and I am sti discovering that I fall short. Alas, not only am I not thin like the media's ideal, I'm also not ACTUALLY femininely beautiful enough, by your standards. My curves aren't to your exact specifications, therefore I am still not feminine nor beautiful enough.

My point is - before writing about how the fashion industry contributes to eating disorders, perhaps peruse your own website for a while and consider how attitudes towards women and their beauty like yours are just as harmful and contribute just as much to women having self-esteem issues and unhealthy body image.

Frankly, it seems like you are a very sick man who invests a LOT of time into this bizarre, disturbing website. Your general perception of women and the time and effort you invest into analyzing their physical beauty paints a very unsettling picture of the inner workings of your mind. You are certainly entitled to your opinions, but the manner in which you're expressing them is very strange and obsessive - and, as I mentioned, harmful to women.

Fri, 07/27/2012 - 01:46 Staci Welcome!

Do I detect a eugenics supporter?

Thu, 07/26/2012 - 08:27 Hair for Men Skinny gurl on Kate Upton

I didn't know who Kate Upton was until I googled her up after reading this post (you have some interesting posts in this site, by the way!). I don't see what the attraction to her is all about: she lacks a feminine derrière as well as feminine hips, has wide shoulders and breasts that look like they have been enhanced. She has an attractive face though but not the kind of body that I would regard as attractive in a female.

Likewise, it is difficult to appreciate a model's true beauty in images as they tend to be enhanced digitally. Having said all of this, there is no reason to be insulting or putting down a human being; unfortuately the world is full of people with too much time in their hands and an internet connection.


Thu, 07/26/2012 - 05:46 Dan Fashion models and mannequins in East Asia

Erik: I understand that you are interested towards addressing about morphometry, anatomy, the role of homosexuals in the fashion industry or other aspects of the appeal as eating disorders!
I can respect that your avoiding dealing with the association of physical appearance to other issues like mating and sexual selection. Although I think you know about evolutionary biology and ethology. At least I can deduct that of your discussions about human sexual selection in some article like "Why is physical attractiveness for women More Important?"
Anyhow you used to ignored comments of many other visitors which they are related to the type of issues that you tend to discuss. I guess it is due to lack of interest or time. It is also respectable.

Thu, 07/26/2012 - 04:25 Milos Fashion models and mannequins in East Asia

Erik: I do not have enough time to check all items and content of your website. and I am a layman in anthropology and anatomy in order to stay current with the latest research. Anyway from what I know I'm not completely agree with you.

Proportions: A key feature of beautiful female faces is the quality known as neoteny, or youthfulness. The eyes of adolescent women appear wider set relative to the distance from the brow to the tip of the nose. High cheekbones are also an important factor, as cheeks and eyes tend to droop with age. Asian women are favored with rounder faces that are more likely to possess these features, though a significant minority have faces that would be deemed overly broad. On the other hand many white women possess neotenous features, especially those of nordic, slavic or germanic ancestry.

Skin: Asian women are generally blessed with fine skin with small pores. Many also have light skin when not tanned. While the majority of white women have light skin with the pinkish hue considered universally appealing in females, many are freckly, and hairier.

Nose: On average Asian women have shorter noses but some are broad and fleshy. White women generally have longer noses though a significant minority have the small delicate noses universally admired in wome

Lips: Asian women tend to have full lips while white women tend to have thin lips. On the extremes, some Asian women can have lips that are too thick and coarse while many white women have lips that are too thin, creating a prissy look.
Erik:I am a layman in the anatomy and anthropology and I'm not updated on the latest researchk but I do not have enough time to check all the items and fcomments in your website is very extensive content.

Eyes:Asian women tend to have smallish eyes that are generally upslanted. White women have larger eyes that are often downslanted. White women are more likely to have the larger eyes considered generally desirable in women. Also, the broader color palette of caucasian eyes allow for attractive hues not found in Asian eyes.

By the other hand, if Scandinavians are highly neotenous based upon mutual sexual selection (Miller, 2000), with both sexes choosing mates exhibiting those blue-eyed, blond-haired, pale skin markers of a person able to thrive off dairy and sunlight (Harris, 1989), then one would also expect to see larger brains (Tobias, 1970) and a cooperative, care-based society (Eisler, 2007). Long arms and legs can also go with a low-testosterone neotenous constellation.

Asian societies, specifically Chinese peoples, also exhibit neoteny, with perhaps both sexes choosing small-sized mates to manage limited nourishment sources. Female estrogen levels are low (Diamond, 1986) and left-handedness is low (Dawson, 1974), with the males testes size almost half of a Scandinavian population adjusted for size (Diamond, 1986). These are all patrifocal markers.

Chinese populations mature far faster and reach puberty sooner (Eveleth & Tanner, 1976) than Northwest Europe populations, an acceleration consonant with a patrifocal frame, yet they exhibit neotenous or maturational-delayed features such as relatively larger brains and flat-faced, diminutive features.

Asian populations that require large-scale, multilevel cooperation encourage the societal cooperation bonuses that come with neoteny, while small size and fast maturation are demanded by intense agrarian population concentrations. In this highly patrifocal context requiring cooperative, neotenous characteristics, you get a dramatic drop in hormone levels, resulting in te females and TE males, shifted down to allow for cooperation between competing forces within a male-domination societal foundation.

Whereas in Scandinavia, with both males and females choosing neotenous features in each other based upon an ideal mate exhibiting the nutrient-absorbing markers of blond hair, blue eyes and light skin, their populations evolved in highly neotenous societal directions, culminating in today’s most cooperation-based industrialized societies, exhibiting what Eisler ( 2007) notes as extremely care-based cultures.

There is pattern here. But how quite tease out the effects of estrogen in Scandinavia, particularly with the female, or if there is a hormone-threshold shift as evidence suggests there is in Asia?

Scandinavians and Asians are social structure archetypes, beautiful examples of derivations from the classic social structure norms. The Asian paradigm is settling down to make sense after years of my being confused, though there are aspects that still befuddle me. One can add estrogen to the equation while noting across-culture hormone thresholds make a difference. There is a riddle in the Scandinavians ripe for picking. The riddle is: What is the hormonal constellation of the Scandinavian woman? Males are likely low testosterone, low to high estrogen. Females could be high testosterone, but they would seem less likely to exhibit the highly neotenous features. Can the female be high in testosterone with all markers suggesting neoteny? If so, what estrogen level most encourages this to work? Are female Scandinavians Te?

If so, you have the opposite paradigm to the Asian female. In Asia, you achieve a patrifocal culture lowering hormone thresholds, speeding up growth and lowering puberty while at the same time investing a host of neotenous characteristics to act as glue. In Scandinavia, you have an emerging matrifocal culture, prolonged ontogenetic growth, later puberty and evidence of neoteny in both sexes, not just in the males, as is the case in classic matrifocal culture with hormonal constellations not seeming to easily support neoteny in both sexes. The easy prediction is female tE, male tE. But somehow I’m just not seeing that as the case. Right now, it’s looking like Scandinavian female Te, male tE.

Thu, 07/26/2012 - 03:57 Dan Fashion models and mannequins in East Asia


1-I think my comment is related to your previous post where you write about the matue value. I do not think it was absurd or out of context

2-I know that the main interest of the site is focused on the role that represents the feminine beauty in the fashion industry, clothing modeling, glamour and nude models, beauty contests, and to promote the use of more feminine women in modeling business. I also appreciate that kind of themes, but maybe more guests and readers can join to this site if they would have access to different topics. Physical attractiveness can affect a lot of things, such as getting a job (especially in occupations where the image is relevant such a models, singers, dancers, hostesses, commercials, shop assistants, work towards the public, etc) and mainly towards the importance of physical attractiveness in sexual selection and mating behaviour. I think it can also be interesting to try this issues related to the beauty science.

Wed, 07/25/2012 - 16:36 Jasmin Waist-to-hip ratio and attractiveness in women: addressing confounds


"I think that the hip to waist ratio is a good indication to see if you're healthy..."

Perhaps, but there are a lot of good looking female athletes who would beg to differ. I think the whole WHR thing is a lot of BS designed to make women feel less than, or in the case of a butterface with a perfect WHR, more than the sum of their parts.

Wed, 07/25/2012 - 16:26 Mira Waist-to-hip ratio and attractiveness in women: addressing confounds

All this research for what ? Fewer that 8% of women today have hourglass figures! Most women have average figures. So what? These less than perfect women have men fall madly in love with them. They marry, have healthy children and live fulfilling lives as feminine, attractive women. Let's talk about Halle Berry. Everyone recognizes her perfect figure and perfect face. Sadly, her beauty has yet to hold a man for more than 5 minutes. What is the real point of obsessively trying to categorize women's waistlines? The WHR depends a lot on the size of a woman's rib cage and the span of her hips,. There is littlethatmcan be done to change these proportions. To say that a woman is not feminine because her WHR is off by a bit is ludicrous. There are plenty of celebrities, Cameron Diaz, Angelina Jolie, Demi Moore , Giselle Bundchen, Naomi Campbell and others, who are widely acknowledged as beautiful and who do not have hourglass figures. Even the current "It" girl Kate Upton is not an hourglass.

Wed, 07/25/2012 - 13:19 Thatwamasi Does beauty lie in the eye of the beholder?

True beauty is universal and transcends race or species.
What humans consider beautiful in birds and animals seems to be appreciated across the species.
A beautiful male bird of paradise is not only enjoyed by Attenborough but also by the female of the species and rest of the world.
Satyam Sivam Sundaram.

Wed, 07/25/2012 - 11:08 NullPointer Fashion models and mannequins in East Asia

oh, nevermind. Just found this doing a google search on your name...

Wed, 07/25/2012 - 10:45 NullPointer Fashion models and mannequins in East Asia

This is "visitor" by the way. Anyways, this is a little off topic, but I was wondering if you have ever considered implementing a rating feature on your attractive women section. It seems like you have very different notions of beauty from me, so I decided to take a look at the attractive women section. I have to admit a select few of them are stunning. However, the vast majority of them seem very plain to me; a small percentage of them I would even deem ugly. In the end, the best judgement of whether somebody is attractive is by popularity contest. Wouldn't you like to know how your viewpoints stack up against the masses? And don't worry; I'm pretty sure homosexual men don't frequent your site.

By the way, what is with you and homosexual men? I understand that you think they promote a skewed standard of beauty. However, I always detect a poorly concealed sense of disgust when you speak about them, almost as if they are a lesser form of existence.

Tue, 07/24/2012 - 22:54 Erik Fashion models and mannequins in East Asia

Macgyver: It appears you took the excerpts from another author. In the future, you should refer us to the source instead of pasting lengthy excerpts on something that goes into a tangent.

Dan: I do not see the point of your lengthy comment. That you “don’t think in homotypic preference (individuals prefer partners of similar attractiveness to their own or with the same ethnic heritage, race, etc)” is not relevant to my reply to you where I addressed the work of Michael Lewis because I did not invoke it.

You asked me to comment on the mechanisms responsible for within-pair matching, but it appears that you know more about this than me, and I can be of no help to you.

Milos: Your comment does not address the article, and it cites old, debunked arguments. You should have searched for comments on Stephen Gould and Ashley Montagu within this site prior to leaving the comment.

Gould was debunked when it was shown that neoteny only applies to human face size, not face shape:

When it comes to face size, East Asians have larger faces (both absolutely and, obviously, relative to body size) than Europeans: (Table 8) pdf here

So it is Europeans who have more neotenous faces than East Asians... not that neoteny is of much relevance to the article.

And yes, East Asian teeth are larger than European teeth on average:

Notice the dates of the publications compared to the decades-old claims you have cited.

Gould and Montagu were charlatans. Only charlatans can portray East Asian faces with their larger size, larger teeth, more robust jaws and cheekbones, mid-facial flattening, noses wider in the fleshy part, and more protruding mouths, which are documented in the linked publications, as having “proceeded further than in any other people,” i.e., being more overall derived than European faces.

Tue, 07/24/2012 - 22:45 Erik Fashion models and mannequins in East Asia

To the person who left comment #12, why don’t you pick a unique name so that it is easy to refer to you and and facilitate readers following the conversation? Visitor is a default name assigned by the software to people who do not fill in a name.

You ask “Is it really fair to lump people into huge categories and call their features European, Asiatic, etc...”? It is not a question of fairness but one of what is observed, and the broad lumps are observed regardless of what you choose to call them.

Your argument rests on tremendous variation within Africa, Asia and other regions. This variation is correctly observed. There is another aspect to variation that is absent in your comment, which is that most variation in human face shapes is found within populations, not between populations. But correlation structures or norms are observed notwithstanding this distribution of variation.

That you know of people who have mistaken Australian aborigines for Africans is an indictment against their ignorance, not one against the existence of norms.

You mention dark students from Africa with Caucasoid face shapes. These would be from the eastern region, and they are not sub-Saharan African types. African or black could be vague without the context, but in the case of Lewis there is no confusion as he is talking about sub-Saharan African types.

According to you, “caved in mid-facial region, protruding mouth, larger jaw” are rare in the northern part of East Asia compared to the south, but the caved-in look is greater in the north, the mouth more protruding in the south, and contrary to your impression, the mouth even in the north is more protruding on average than in Europeans. All this here:

Tue, 07/24/2012 - 21:55 Visitor Attractive women that unfortunately have small breasts

"oooh, look at her tits... they are so small... hmmm!" Sorry, doesn't happen. Ever.

You've apparently never been a small breasted woman. Yes, it happens, and it happens often. The one here who seems to be fooling themselves and lying is you.

Tue, 07/24/2012 - 21:52 Visitor Attractive women that unfortunately have small breasts

The fact that you posted this study just contradicts yourself. "Be happy with your small tits, don't change them, they're ok, BUT! they are a disadvantage, all guys prefer big breasts, this study proves it, your small tits are a disadvantage, but it doesn't matter."